America's Two Party System

“Who is for it?

How many people think the Democratic party and Republican party give us a good choice of candidates?”

“i think a two party system is good. too bad we no longer have one.

these days there is very little difference between the two as far as the big picture is concerned. they both waste money, snipe at each other and show no real concern for anything other than throwing bones in hopes of being re-elected.”

“+1”

“It's one- the $Lobby$Party$.”

“Allow me to explain how our federal government works. To begin with, by the federal government I mean Democrats ad Republicans working together. And the only thing dumber than a Democrat and a Republican is when those pricks work together. You see, in our two-party system, the Democrats are the party of no ideas and the Republicans are the party of bad ideas. It usually goes something like this. A Replubican will stand up in Congress and say, "I've got a really bad idea." And a Democrat will immediately jump to his feet and declare, "And I'm gonna make it #&%!$tier."

-Lewis Black”

“yes”

“We kinda touched on this yesterday.

Politics has become a popularity contest in which the contestents try to outspend each other to make their constituents like them and re-elect them. In the process, they somehow miraculously line their own pockets.

Many of todays politicians are deeply entrenched and it will take a HUGE effort to either unseat them or reform (real reform) the system. However, there is a comfort level among many constituents. They don't want to unseat someone they suspect is using the system to his/her advantage because they are afraid of change or they think "the other guy" is more corrupt or the current guy 'has done so much for our state.'

I don't mind the current system. It's the people in it I have a problem with. Unfortunately they have set things up in a way that makes it hard to replace them.

Equally unfortunate is that we are complicit. We let it happen. Hopefully we can still change it.

(Soapbox aside, I guess that means I'm with baume and HPD, lol.)”

“Yesterday, I watched Lou Dobbs dedicate his show to four doctors talking about health care. In the hour, Lou had to awkwardly break in on the discussion six times for ads. I'll let you cowgirls continue yours uninterrupted.”

“The two party system has evolved intoa total clusterphuck that only serves special interest with the deepest pockets. They buy votes and get as many people as possible dependant on government, either by emplying them or giving them other peoples money. It's not the systems fault. It's immorality which breeds corruption. Carreer politicians who make 100 K a year all turn out to be multi-millionaires.
I agree with Noncon, that we need a reformer. I'm afraid we're not going to get one out these 2 parties. I believe there a some good people in both parties but most just tow the party line. That's why I've declared Independant and many Americans are doing the same.

Hell, I'd vote for Ross Perot right now....we need to clean out the barn...”

“its ok strat. we surround them.”

“The bigger you grow, the more you blow.”

“Ross Perot types are the problem, dOOd.”

“That's TOE the party line......

Ross Perot made his fortune on U.S. government contracts yet he blathered on about too many feeding at the government trough.”

“The difference is he WORKED for the government contracts versus getting handouts.”

“No, his employees did the work.

Perot is no saint, he's like any of those who run Medicare Mills or "Defense" Industry Mills.

They milk the taxpayers.”

“MarkO this has been done beginning of any Gov. I would have done the same as you would have too.”

“Perhaps I would have taken advantage of such an opportunity, but in fact I did not.

I'm just saying that Perot is not necessarily a principled individual since he railed against those who suckle at the U.S. Feed Trough and that suckling at the U.S. Feed Trough is how he made his fortune.”

“I beg to differ. I worked for him and my father did since almost the beginning of EDS. Perot worked for his money and for his company and for his employees. Anybody would be lucky to work with that man.”

“Marko, if every company that works for the government was efficient as EDS was when he ran it, our government would be much better off. He left and it went to hell.”

“He was very efficient at making his fortune on taxpayer's money.”

“Ok, whatever. Suddenly you're against the government spending money. You going to protest these "green" companies that are currentky drooling on Obama's doorstep with their hands out?

I guess you would have preferred if the government handled it's own datawarehousing needs, as if that would be cheaper and more efficient?”

“I'm just saying that Perot is not necessarily a principled individual since he railed against those who suckle at the U.S. Feed Trough and that suckling at the U.S. Feed Trough is how he made his fortune.”
Marko
12:11:23 PM
11/01/09

No, no and no.
I said what I said and you, in typical fashion, embellish upon it.
In the words of Sarah Palin(the funniest Palin on earth.......sorry Michael)....
"Stop makin' up stuff"”

“Yes, you said he suckled on the governments teet, as if he got a handout. He worked for the money the government paid him to do a job. Somebody has to do that work. It might as well be companies that are efficient. You seem to be demonizing him for doing that. Do you have a specific example of how he robbed the government?”

“"Yes, you said he suckled on the governments teet, as if he got a handout."

Did not!

Stop makin' up stuff!

"Do you have a specific example of how he robbed the government?"

I never said he robbed the government.

Stop makin' up stuff!”

“Ok.”

“What happened to Ford?

And where the hell is FIAT?”

“Ford got it's money before rates went way down.

How 'bout that sChity Bank, America???”

“Ahem.....Focus people...FOCUS!

Now, as I said, everybody is wrong but me....wait, is that what I said? No, not exactly. OK, Marko's wrong, because he's a teat sucker!

HA!”

“go surround yourself”

“What do you believe in, crashdang?”

“nothing and no one”

“Well, there's yer problem....”

“If you don't support liars and cheats-who and what is there to believe in. Without religion, to force belief in whatever the message, seldom doesn't anything qualify.”

“What happened to Ford?

Ford took none of the bailout.”

“Oh I'm a Ford man from now on nigal. I'll never buy a GM or Dodge”

“Why not buy the best car that fits your needs, FREE MARKET dOOdS?LOL, LOL and LOL!!”

“How bout I'm not gonna help government subsidized(that's our money) labor unions”

“Sounds like that's a "best fit" for stratdood. LOL @ salebowned.”

“She had no business running as a republican. She just a liberal. Backing the liberal Democrat proves it.”

“Her voting record is to the right of her Republican colleagues but she supports choice so the crazies had to run her out.

That big tent gets smaller and smaller every day.

Keep it up wingers.”

“Vile lies a lot.”

“stovie trolls a lot”

“the crazies had to run her out.
~Violet


You mean the voters?”

“Screw the tent....America is a center right nation and conservative principles will rule the day. Only 26% call themselves liberal.”

“Its too bad you guys are out on the right-wing lunatic fringe.”

“I never supported Bush 100%. If you search the thread headers, you'll see at least one thread by me criticizing Bush. I never supported his immigration views, even before he was elected. I never supported his inability to lower taxes over the years by making cuts (we disagree on what should be cut, but nevertheless) -- But I did support him in that I believed the alternatives would be absolutely devastating to our national security. In the past, I was willing to take the bad in order to hold onto a greater good. (I don't regret that decision)

That said - we have rebuilt much of what I believe (IMO) was destroyed during the Clinton years re: our military intelligence. We have reintroduced ourselves into the middle east at an unprecedented level as a major component of that. I don't believe that that renewed skill-set will be easily removed by a sitting president in the near future.

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant because, as you will read below, this isn't about what who was right and wrong, but about how we make our decisions of who to vote for and support. I am just establishing where I am coming from with this point.

I have also come to realize, over the last 3 years, that the fundamental rights of the citizens, as envisioned by the founding fathers, has been all but completely lost. Much of that blame lies on Bush. Much of that blame lies on past presidents. Much of that blame lies in congress. Most of that blame lies in us, the voters. I have come to realize that we are in fact moving towards a world dictatorship, loosely, a new Rome, if you will. I personally believe that we are heading down a path to slavery - where 99% of the world's population is slave to a very elite few. Those rulers may not have been born yet, but the template is there.

We MUST realize, whether we are Democratic, Republican, Independent, or whatever, that the parties have not served us well. The Democrats have not provided any of the freedoms they have promised minorities, the Republicans have not provided any of the freedoms they have promised the middle class.

It is time that we call ALL injustices for what they are - devoid ourselves of a "party affiliation". THAT IS WHAT IS HOLDING US BACK. THAT IS WHAT IS CAUSING OUR ARGUMENTS. It's the classic experiment all over again - the blue eyed versus the brown eyed. Us verses them.

By holding on to our party affiliations, by pointing the finger saying you did it first, or two wrongs make a right - we are then UNABLE to point at "our man/woman" in office and call them out.

NONE OF THEM are ours. WE ARE ON NOBODY'S TEAM.

We must embrace that.

It is time we called a spade a spade and ignore the parties. I renounced by Republican membership years ago and have no desire to return. I am an Independent. I side closely with libertarians on most issues, but will not become one of them.

No more teams.

THIS is the solution to our fighting.
THIS is the solution to resolving our problems.

This isn't a football game, where one team is the "right" one to cheer on, and all the others are the "enemy". This is a republic where we vote for people to represent our ideas, and when THOSE people, who WE (not "they") voted for, diverge from our principles, we must be willing and able to stand up to them - those very people we voted into office. We can't do that if we take sides. We can't do that if we're in an "us versus them" mentality. We need to renounce our teams and take ownership of our country. Let the Democrats and the Republicans put up their candidates, but when they don't represent our ideals, when the are sacrificing freedom for votes, we must be willing to say "you are wrong", and avoid voting for them.

Regardless of what rhetoric comes from the Republicans and the Democrats, NEITHER party has delivered, for whatever reason, for whomever is to blame, over the decades. The problems are not getting solved. They are getting worse, regardless of your viewpoint, regardless of your goals.

Renounce the teams. Let's discuss the issues.”

“so we can expect an end of the democrat bashing from you, then? not that i hold the democrat party in high regards (protip: i dont), but im not holding my breath”

“Scozzafava is a Conservative Republican (in New York) http://bshor.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/scozzafava-is-a-conservative-republican-in-new-york/


I think its just great that Beck, Limbaugh and Palin have become the defacto leaders of the Republican Party. They're headed for single digit support.
last edited: 11/03/09 1:16:00 PM”