Dumb luck? (poncho tarp & down bag, no b ivy)

“Hello Everyone,

I currently have a GoLite Poncho Tarp (Silnylon, 8 ft 8 in x 4 ft 10 in, 10.44oz on my scales), window insulation film as a ground sheet (1.10oz) and a Marmot Helium (16F, 31.82oz) or Atom (43F 21.52oz). I'm 5 feet 9 inches tall.

I do not use a bivy with my down bags and I haven't gotten wet.

My question is.... am I asking for trouble? Most other gear lists w/ poncho/tarps have lightweight or partial bivys included. I have slept through a decent rain storm or two, staying dry in A-frame pitch. But it's also relatively cramped under my little poncho/tarp, and I'm worried I'll get bit eventually. (I tried pitching in a half-pyramid for more protection in backyard, but was even more cramped length-wise and had trouble keeping it taught)

I am contemplating going lighter with Cuben Fiber products (solo tarp, poncho/tarp, bivy, pack) to lighten up.

If a bivy is recommended with an 8 ft 8 in x 4 ft 10 in poncho/tarp, I'll probably start weighing the pros/weights of a larger CF tarp vs. smaller tarp and bivy....or if there is a larger CF poncho/tarp than my current one.

Thanks for the advice. Currently sitting at ~8lbs base weight”

“Why not add a pad? Nice air core to get you up off the ground..”

“Chill out, Sticks. geez

Your type of response is the reason that newcomers don't stick around.”

“At 8 pounds base weight (tent, pack, pad and bag), my guess is that your pack must not be lightweight. Personally, I am very protective of my down bags so I don't use tarps.

Take a look at the Lightheart tents. For a mere 26 ounces for a solo tent, you will have plenty of protection from the elements and plenty of room inside for your gear.”

“I am chilled...just being honest. You chill”

“www.lightheartgear.com

Very lightweight tents and I kinow fvrom experience they hold up in some bad conditions.

Just ignore sticks. He's just a small step from being an HPD.”

“If you replace the poncho, then you'll need raingear..

I've always liked the poncho/shelter idea, just never found one I could fit under. Adding a pad will not only get your bag up off of saturated ground it will get you up inside that poncho a little bit more. Sounds like the poncho is working for you, so I'd simply add to it.”

“Crash summed me up very well..."a cantankerous PITA". If you live to be an old fart like me you might be one too.

Just remember in the backcountry I just might be the one to save your butt.

@nemster I don't know you so please do not insult me like that again. Thanks”

“You don't know Bster13 either, but evidently you see no problem with insulting him.”

“Ok Gram Weenie...That is what I call all that obsess about how many grams their gear weighs...so I took care of you...Next...”

“ah yes, another thread going down the tubes...

'32oz”

“ease up on sticks...he's opinionated and may come off as abrasive some times but that was pretty good advice and i can tell you he'd give the same advice if you were face to face...he's definitely not trying to stir anything up and he's no where near the comparison nemster gave”

“I call it how it is. And it was pretty obvious how it was.

I know you dont know me. You were being an ass and I called you on it. Dont whine like (you know who) now.”

“Who are you talking to?”

“You talking to me? Are YOU TALKING to me?!?!?!

'32oz”

“The problem, thrifty, is that the new guy doesn't know the "cantankerous PITA" sticks that we know. Now he's gone over to WB where I am sure he will receive a kinder response.”

“I hope he's not talkin' to Creeky!

Don't mind that Old Kentucky Fart, sometimes he beez dat way.”

“ohhh....I know who he is talking to. And it ain't me. :)”

“i'm sure there's abrasive people over there too...the world's full of them...if you noticed, the original poster hasn't said anything about it...only the regulars have complained...he didn't full on insult him, was just was a little opinionated...no harm in that

...and to compare him to some instigators on here is just ridiculous...the difference is the instigators do it just to get a response and has/had no intention of contributing to this site, sticks is just being himself and if you re-read the post, actually gave some advice

...anyway, i don't want to get into a big thing about this...just trying to say i'm sure sticks didn't mean anything by it (not that i'm trying to speak for him)”

“He did stick some advice in there.”

“Yeah sticks meant no harm, just his advice was lousy....what happened to HYOH? Using a poncho for a shelter and going light is a solid strategy.”

“@Sticks, I have had many major knee surgeries, every gram counts in my book to stay mobile as I get older and experience more wear and tear…..not that I needed to justify my personal preference and enjoyment in being a “gram weenie” or anything. There is a difference between giving your honest opinion and being abrasive.

As someone new to the forum, Creek Dancer has the right idea with welcoming new members. Adding weight is not an option for me, that’s pretty obvious in my original post. So I’m not sure why you suggested that in the first place. Sure you “might be the one to save my butt,” but of course the tables could be turned out on the trail, and no one likes helping a curmudgeon, right? :)

@1camper I have a sleeping pad that is 2.5in thick, but I still worry about sideways rain or stuff splashing up at me. (Cascade Designs NeoAir, Short @ 9.03oz on my scale) But a pad def. helps. The poncho/tarp has worked in the past, but I think I’ve just been luck thus far. I need a little more protection from the elements.

@Creek Dancer. I define “base weight” as weight of pack and gear carried in the pack, but no consumables. Common definitions of Ultralight is any base weight under 10lbs. I thought I was doing ok. My shelter (including ground sheet), pack, pad and bag = 3.73lbs.”

“Wow, then your base weight, by a non-ultralighter's definition, is pretty impresive. I didn't know there were different methods to measure base weight.

What kind of pack do you use?

Welcome to TT, by the way. But hold onto your hat. Things get a little crazy around here.”

“I have an original Gossamer Gear Mariposa similar to this pack:

http://gossamergear.com/packs/mariposa-plus-ultralight-backpack.html

It is made of silnylon, but I am considering going to a Cuben Fiber pack, tarp (or poncho), and bivy if the tarp isn't big enough. I'm also replacing my trekking poles.”

“Get a Blackbird traveller hammock then, and go in style! You should be able to cover one of those with the poncho, if not, six moons or mountain laurel has one that will. MLD is cuben. Have to warn you tho...once you go cuben there's no going back..”

“...a full length pad would help keep that bag dry without spending too much.”

“I am very happy using an 8x12 ft. tarp.

However, here is what I want:

oops, it is gone.
It was at Duluth Backpacks. It was like a bivy and sleeping bag combination with space for a pad.

So, maybe you need a Bivy,”

“See if had Bster13 covered these physical items from the get go I would not thought he was just another Gram Weenie...trying to impress and awe others with his ultralight setup.

So now I have a question. Since your knees are kaput are you using trekking poles? I have had surgery on both my knees and I can say without a doubt they are the reason I am still on the trail. Second I still stand by my first statement of just finding the gear or making it yourself to cover your arse...in the literal sense. What can you lose in your setup to makeup for the weight gained in your shelter needs.

I have had to lighten up and to be honest I still need to drop some more. I also like my creature comforts such as a pint of Knob Creek Single Barrel so I don't carry camp shoes...it's all in perspective.”

“Sure you “might be the one to save my butt,” but of course the tables could be turned out on the trail, and no one likes helping a curmudgeon, right? :)

I see the smilie but your statement suggests otherwise...If we should ever hike together I will remember this.

I am very self sufficient on the trail and there are only a small number of people on this board I trust to be able to save my butt or anyone else"s for that matter.
last edited: 4/29/11 11:54:25 AM”

“Shoeless and half-lit.......good to go.”

“Marko don't let my Limmer wafflestompers find your toe. Who said anything about shoeless?”

“Adding weight is not an option for me, that's pretty obvious in my original post

not really..”

“Thank you Sunni...”

“I am very self sufficient on the trail and there are only a small number of people on this board I trust to be able to save my butt or anyone else"s for that matter.

Thats all fine and good until you break something and have to rely on someone else..”

“Pint of booze + no camp shoes = footloose hillbilly”

“Yee Haw!!!! But I share the 110 proof with my fellow camp mates!”

“@Sticks…I didn’t know I had to qualify my condition or hiking philosophy prior to posting questions in order to avoid your onslaught. My bad.

I’m not sure how my posts said “look at my UL setup, I’m cool!” I believe you inferred that. Of course I love sharing my base weight with friends and watching their draws drop once in a while, but that’s just an added benefit (The SUL guys get my draw to drop). The primary thing is that my setup lets me hike more/better. My post was a question, not a “look at me” statement.

I use trekking poles 24/7. They are a great benefit. I am purchasing lighter ones currently. Either these:
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/poles.html

or these:
http://gossamergear.com/trekking/black-straps.html

Going lighter requires each hiker to rely on their skills/brains more as your margin for error is smaller. In my current case, I feel I’ve used my skills well, but I’ve inadvertently relied on luck a bit too much for weather protection. I’m always looking to lose weight off my back to have more energy to hike more. The goal is to go lighter AND have more functional gear. At the very least I aim to go for more functional gear at the same weight.

I’m glad you are very self-sufficient, I should hope we all aim to be. And don’t worry, I’d still help you on the trail. I’d rather help you than have to drag your cold, dead body to a trailhead….because that’d just not very ultralight, now is it? :p

@Sunni. I’m sorry you did not figure out I was opposed to adding weight from my initial post. I thought there were some key points in my post that made it clear:

“~8 lbs base weight” (<10lbs is ultralight by definition)
“poncho/tarp”
“window insulation film as ground sheet”
Careful weighing of my own gear

....or most evident to me:

“I am contemplating going lighter with Cuben Fiber products (solo tarp, poncho/tarp, bivy, pack) to lighten up.”

My apologizes, I’ll try to be more clear next time.”

“Don't apologize, Bster. Sticks is just trying to make it your fault that he treated you poorly. Like he said, he is just an old cantankerous PITA.”

“don't sweat it Bster...let's all hold hands, spoke a fatty and sing kum bi ya

NB4 "oh, so you condone illegal activity?"

so what's up with the name, Bster13?”

“^spoke=smoke”

“um dude dont be a smart ass...just because someone does not want to add weight does not mean they will not or cannot add weight. This is the internet...dont assume we all know what your intention is.

Thrifty, do you now see why Sticks response was out of line? Now this dude has as attitude because of the attitude he was given..”

“Bster references the first letter of my first name. #13 is my favorite #. Not sure where it came from....long time ago. *shrugs*

@Sunni, fair enough. I thought it was pretty obvious, you did not...we'll both live. But yes, I tend to practice the Internet version of the Golden Rule... treat others as they have treated you in message threads.”

“I'm one who likes comfort but also need to look at keeping my weight down. I really like the tarp tents. I'm a big fan is six moon designs and they have one that's only about 16-20 ozs. The weight is worth it to insure I stay dry and get a good nights sleep. If I don't get sleep, I'm not good for anything.”

“Of course I love sharing my base weight with friends and watching their draws drop once in a while, but that’s just an added benefit (The SUL guys get my draw to drop). The primary thing is that my setup lets me hike more/better.

Your Honor I rest my case...

My post was a question, not a “look at me” statement.

No you just stated how you feel too late to try to CYA...Guilty as charged”

“@sticks. I'm not trying to hide how I feel. I'll say it again, in case you didn't understand:

I first posted a question on how to better outfit myself. I did not post a "look at me" statement.

I then mentioned it is an ADDED BENEFIT (not the primary concern) when I compare notes with friends on the trail and they discover my lower base weight, if that may be the case. (Who doesn't take pride in their gear/setup and like to talk shop?)

Your honor, how did he ever get past the American Bar Association to prosecute, let alone be judge and jury?

(For the record you have not posted one single piece of gear or strategy pertaining to my original question. If you're up for helping me, I'm still listening.)”

“Thanks for the well wishes sticks, same to you. #winning”

“Bster13, the best advice I can give you is to post your question on backpackinglight or backpacking.net


sticks, HPD isn't going to go to WB and ask the same question.”

“Ewker I was being sarcastic... like you have never done it before...meh”

“me..never”

“LOL!!! Carry on my man. ;D”