clinton legacy

“Poke 'im and he spews crap.”

“XL - Just when I think there are no lower rungs on the stupidity ladder, you somehow seem to find another.

For me to forgive has nothing to do with the other person. It's about me seeking to be released from carrying the emotional burden of unforgiveness. It's not about the other person being released from their responsibility. If I forgive someone I am not releasing them from their obligation, either personal or societal; I am just letting it go from me. Duke still stays in jail, Bill Clinton still has to pay his price and, you remain a dickhead...but I am free.

Can you get it now?”

“Roger, Ramon!”

“LOL...I love it Nimble has obviously found his level of "Buy the World A coke" or he has had one toke over the line (LOL)

See Numble, in the REAL world bad things happen. I am pretty much guessing you have never had to sit in a house with a father whose daughter (age 16) was just RAPED by a guy who broke in the house. She was going to the hospital (for the degrading rape kit test) with her mother. The scum was caught. He had been released from prison (lets call it "FORGIVEN" by the State) only six months later. Oh and his "parole hearing" was the greatest bit of acting I ever read.

SO gramps how you gonna deal with that? Yeah you can say,"Oh Forgive them" and stick your head in your pillow and think about the good olde days.

Sadly I notice the same people who wnat ot forgive and forget abuses of our society by true criminal scum seem to be in the same league as the people calling for the death of conservatives who are just SPEAKING their mind (Numble thats one of those First Amendment rights in case the memory is failing).”

“Of course, once we spend ourselves into bankruptcy, the guy who got a hummer is going to look a lot smarter.”

“No, you dope, I am not saying anyone should ever forgive anything. It's their right to hang onto it for as long as they need to. It does not mean I absolve the offender of their responsibility in whatever the act was. In fact, I am an advocate of personal responsibility for my self and others. I have never said, nor am I implying that it is a "snap your fingers" type of thing. However, a person will not begin to recover from their victimization until they begin the road to forgiveness. Oh, and don't tell me about real world stuff, my father beat the crap out of me and my 5 brothers from early childhood on. Recovery from that has been slow and painful, but much less so than to continue to carry the grudge. I hung on to unforgiveness until I got tired of the sleepless nights, loss of appetite and inability to focus to the point I had to figure out a way to let go. Meanwhile, the person (in this case my dad) I had not forgiven may well have been living the life of Reilley, completely oblivious to my dilemma. It is not necessary for me to deal in any way with this person in order to let it go. It's for me, not them.

What is it about the concept of forgiveness that seems to bedfuddle and antagonize most Christians?”

“How is getting lousy gas mileage going to........   nevermind.”

“Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is unveiling a sweeping health care proposal Monday that would require everyone to carry health insurance and offer federal subsidies to help reduce the cost of coverage.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_health_care;_ylt=ArQUkQi8bsoXfyZ3BQHihYms0NUE

This is what she wanted to do when Bill was Pres.
Saddle us with a tax structure and health care system like Canada, UK, and New Zealand.
Where Government waste runs the hospitals.

It would put a stop to Canadians coming here for surgery that they cannot get in Canada, because then they would not be able to get it here either.

I seem to remember that the concept was so unpopular before that Bill dropped it like the hot brick it was, and dropped his dear wife from suggesting health policy.”

“No it wouldn't Manuka - it would be more like the French system, which is pretty well regarded as the best in the world.

I mean, if the US system is so efficient how come Americans pay much much more for healthcare than anyone else, yet leave a bunch of people with no coverage?”

“Big medicine pumps too much money into Washington to ever see real improvements in the heath system. It's all about making as much money as possible from your illness.”

“What is it about the concept of forgiveness that seems to bedfuddle and antagonize most Christians?”
Nimblefoot
11:22:36 AM
9/17/07

#1) It is taught very poorly by the church for the most part.

#2) The concept relies on a level of Biblical literacy that is lacking to a great degree.

#3) It has been a concept which has escaped people (not just Christians) since Cain killed Abel. It has a long history. (Correction: since Adam blamed Eve for his own choice of disobedience.)

#4) It is completely counter-intuitive.
last edited: 9/17/07 8:37:55 AM”

“XL: You said Clinton allowed the US to sell technology to China and North Korea. Everything you post and link deals with claims about materials to China - not to North Korea. Not one mention of Korea in any of it, so you haven't backed up your claim.

This can't relate to your blaming Clinton about North Korea's missile because China had long range missles before Clinton was president.”

“Hospital waste runs the government instead.

(.... even though Frist has retired,   LOL)”

“Thanks, Rev, I was hoping you would show up and shed some light on it. I agree that other religions struggle with it as well. I'm going to set a personal goal to stop taking pot shots at Christians...progress, not perfection:)”

“Right on, Nimble.

And I agree it certainly is counter-intuitive.”

“Nimblefoot...

In actuality, the Christian religion is the only one that really has a doctrine of forgiveness per se. There are many variations of the "eye for an eye" concept including Judaism, Islam and the doctrine of Karma.

The problem is that Christians are held to a non-Christian standard of forgiveness, in part because it is taught so poorly.

There is a world of difference between reconciliation and forgiveness. Forgiveness has nothing to do with civil penalties or incumbent consequences. Forgiveness is a personal decision and is totally one sided in its application. Reconciliation is a whole different critter.”

“I'm going to set a personal goal to stop taking pot shots at Christians...

Thanks - because I was just about to comment on that. It's absurd that so many non-Christians judge Christians in the manner that they do. Christians would have no need to be Christians if they did not sin like anyone else. That's the whole point. The reason they are Christian is because they are sinners. You can't have one without the other. Their only hypocrisy comes if they don't believe in Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you ever meet a perfect Christian, tell Jesus that Sarge says "hi". If you've got a personal issue with Christians, maybe it's you who should exhibit the forgiveness.”

“I am without sin and therefore have no need of religion, Christian or otherwise.

Dang you all!!”

“RR -I understand reconciliation and certainly agree.

Sarge - who said I wasn't a Christian? If I gotta be something (and I don't), then being a Christian is pretty much it. There's still a lot of malarkey to it, just like the others. I tend to parse out the malarkey for myself instead of letting an institution do it for me. Guess what? Sometimes I change my mind. Growth? Regression? Who knows, but whatta trip!”

“I agree MarkO is without sin (but he sure #&%!$s up a lot, lol).”

“Yes, Bruthuh Ray!!

Got any idea where I could pick up a little sin?”

“Beats me, I'm so boring that I was designated driver for 8 drunks on Saturday night.”

“There is a well-known 'holier than thou' attitude expressed by SOME that exposes them to charges of hypocrisy.

(especially those of the media whore variety)”

“Hmmmm Nimble, that makes you a vessel for sin.

Not bad work if ya can get it!


Media Whore??
Like televangelists??
last edited: 9/17/07 9:15:31 AM”

“Sarge - who said I wasn't a Christian?

Beats me!? I don't assume anybody is not a Christian.

re:malarkey - My biggest pet peave on this subject is people mixing "religion" with "Christianity". Yes, Chrisianity is a religion, but it's more than that. It is lots of "religions", and it is things other than a religion, like a belief, a lifestyle, etc.. My Christian circles rarely talk about "religion", because the term seems to imply a specific system, a non-changing way of life. Christianity commands you to be ever-changing. There is something implicity wrong with the term "religion" when applying it to true Christianity. I'd have to develop that thought further for you, hopefully you catch my drift, but I have to go to a meeting.”

“I can dig it.”

“The cliche adage is:

"Christianity is not a religion.. it is a relationship."

Please note the comment about the cliche adage....”

“Tiltypoo is so cute when he takes about other's hypocrisy, but will not see his own. (VBG)”

“Ah, why not stick this here:

”

“Why not indeed.... none of the recent thread has anything to do with the thread title anyway.”

“SInce you don't have a search capability on your computer let me connect the dots

Pakistan also benefited from the trade in weaponry. The missiles-for-nukes trade gave Pakistan an operational means to deliver its atomic bombs.

Pakistan has since successfully test-fired and deployed its own version of the No Dong missile, called the Ghauri. The North Korean-designed missile has a range of nearly 900 miles and can cover virtually all of India, Pakistan's rival in Southwest Asia.

The ultimate irony here is that the North Korean No Dong and Tae Po Dong missiles are based on technology given to Pyongyang by China. In 1994, the Wall Street Journal revealed that Chinese-made CSS-2 missile technology had found its way into North Korean hands.

China has also allowed North Korea to ship SCUD missiles through its territory for Middle Eastern customers. According to a Canadian undercover operative, North Korean agents moved dismantled SCUD missiles through China into Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.

The allegations proved to be correct because U.S. satellites were able to follow Chinese-made M-11 missiles bound for Pakistan over the same land route in 2000. The illegal export of M-11 missiles brought swift sanctions against Beijing by the Bush administration.

In recent months China has been much more overt about assisting Pyongyang with its nuclear weapons program. In 2002, China sold Pyongyang a large shipment of tributyl phosphate, a key chemical used to extract plutonium and uranium from spent fuel rods for atomic bombs.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/7/164846.shtml



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
China is sharing space technology with North Korea, a move that could boost Pyongyang's long-range missile program, White House and Pentagon officials told The Washington Times.

The space cooperation was discovered by the National Security Agency late last year and revealed to senior Clinton administration officials recently in sensitive intelligence reports.

China and North Korea are working jointly to develop space satellites, officials familiar with the reports said.

The reports are alarming because North Korea used a long-range Taepodong missile in August to try to place a satellite in orbit. They also heighten fears among some Pentagon officials that militarily useful U.S. satellite technology, shared improperly with China in 1995 and 1996, may have been given to the North Koreans.

"There have been some scientific contacts with the North Koreans and the Chinese in the satellite area," said a senior national security official.

Because of the sensitive sources used to collect the information, officials refused to discuss details about the cooperation.

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspace/articles/china.htm



See CHINA (thats the BIG Country in Asia with a BORDER on North Korea) supports the North Koreans. Most likely out of personal protection desire (every MAJOR invasion of China from Japan came through Korea)


So here is the theory....in the late 1990's the Chinese (and strangely the North Koreans) were unable to make a Ballistic Missile FLY (the blew up on the pad)Then Slick clears the way so his contributors (Loral Aerospace and The Chi Coms) could improve the technology...then SHAZAAAAAM the Chinese put a missile in orbit (thus making it what we call a "BALLISTIC MISSILE" and then SHAZAM as if by MIRACLE the North Korean put one up.....”

““The cliche adage is: "Christianity is not a religion.. it is a relationship." - Ramblinrev

I've never heard that, but it makes sense looking at Christianity purely.

I looked up the saying and saw that there was a comment about that on CARM (my favorite apologetic site), which explains why that is true.

[carm] Christianity is not just a religion; it is a relationship with God. It is a trusting in Jesus and what He did on the cross (1 Cor. 15:1-4), not on what you can do for yourself (Ephesians 2:8-9).

[me] Religion has the negative connotation (as it was used in this thread) as a way of living through which our actions often render us hypocritical. But, true Christianity isn't about what we can do for ourselves, it's about what God has already done for us.”

“WOW !! has this thread gone down the tubes.

Even my fried brain know there was Christianity before slick Willy.

I would like to formally announce here that Bill Clinton and his period as President of the USA was in no way responsible for the religious intolerance and bigotry of the world. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, as much as I despise her views on socialist health care, was/is also not responsible for any religious problems in this world.

Religion - the opiate of the masses”

“Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Religion Ad Nauseam”

“No it wouldn't Manuka - it would be more like the French system, which is pretty well regarded as the best in the world.

Y2
8:41:20 AM
9/17/07

You mean the system that allowed 15,000 people to die in a heat wave? No thanks.”

“Utility management is very different than health care. Whole different department.”

“15 THOUSAND! They sacrificed more of their civilians in one itty bitty heat wave than we would of volunteer soldiers if the Iraq war last almost 4 times as long as it has in 4 years! Holy crap that system sucks! LOL”

“Steal this thread”

“Stains on a blue dress
and a stinky cigar.”

“sounds like a Mississippi blues song”

“Almost ;-)”

“
”

“Now he thinks he's in Reservoir Dogs.....



last edited: 10/06/07 9:00:07 PM”

“What I learned over the past 6 years.....




That I find getting a hummer in the White House is less offensive than filling body bags.”

“Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

Whatever happened to those Democrats?”

“We're still here, bacpac.

But I will never be convinced the "war" in Iraq is "for" this country.

The line of #&%!$ the American public was sold turned out to be just that...a line of #&%!$.

Don't be confused, this action isn't for "America".....this is an agenda. If we wanted to protect America from the terrorists, we would have got the job done in Afghanistan.

Hell, Iran is turning out to be a much bigger threat than Iraq.”

“BTW, Clinton had body bags, too.”

“Thanks for your sacrifice, Chili.”

“The others began to switch parties after the passage and enactment of the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

I wonder how many Republicans became Democrats post 1965.... or post 2005.”