Your Thoughts on Bags & Tarps...

“Having spent the past 3 years upgrading various equipment, leaning a less weighty method of backpacking, I've done pretty well at upgrading my equipment. The cost of doing so notwithstanding, all things must come in their own time, and now, it IS time to seek new bags, and possibly even a tarp for lighter weight packing.

I've been searching the web, and the BP gear guide, for what would be the most likely bag to be used for the hiking I do - majority of which takes place from May through August. Thus, a summer weight bag - preferably Down - is appropriate for this objective (I also will be shopping for pre-May and post-August weight bags, too).

Ive never had a tarp, but the Mountain Hardware Batray (2) caught my eye... as for bags, I'm merely interested in what you have to contribute by way of comfort, warmth, and fit. I like a little room in a bag, and something that would zip together with another. It's best if it's under 2#, and the shell should be reasonably moisture repellant. I don't want to drop $500 per bag, but neither do I believe it will be less than $200.

As I write, it appears Western Mountaineering has the best options from which to choose, as far as bags go. But I'm concerned about the damn thing being so tightly put together that I have little or no room to move within it. I toss and turn sometimes, and I generally sleep warm. I prefer a higher grade of Down, something in the 700-800 fill range, lots of loft, packs small. OK, so I'm dreaming... but I can wish, can't I?

Of course, if you know of sales or discounts, that's helpful, too. Right now, I just don't think these 10 year old Slumberjacks have much life left in them.

Oh yeah... I also have an SD Orion, which I really like. Nice size for two people + gear, but that's for those times I might hike with a friend. Going solo, I'd like to drop some weight, and the Batray looks really interesting.

Your thoughts, comments, and experience will be most appreciated.

Thanks!

Obi Wan”

“Being a humble owner of a Western Mountaineering Ultralite bag, it's true that they can be a tight fit. If you're going to want to bend your knees while sleeping, count on the bag going with them. There just isn't that much freedom of movement inside the bag. That said, it's a great summer bag.

Oh yeah, the WM bag leaks down where it will probably be depleted in 100+ years, but it leaks FWIW.

My better half and I are looking to get zip together bags too. We have pretty much the same interests as you, although we're pretty open towards synthetic.

It's likely we will go for the WM bags.”

“ooooooooh, I love
my WM bag!!!
gigglegiggle

That said, if you tend to feel claustrophobic, I have heard only good things about SD's Sandman collection. The bags have an elastic system that stretches and moves with ya. I don't know what sort of weight/warmth variation they offer though...

I have never felt suffocated in the warm embrace of my beloved WM bag, FWIW. ;o)”

“Talk to walkindude about tarps. He does tarp camping a lot. I still use a tent. The bag thing though...my advise is go to a store that has them and try them on. I go to Campmor out here and the've got at least a hundred on the wall that you can pull down and slip into to try. I am personally a synth. man Down is nice but if you get it wet it's not going to be warm and it absorbs the water and becomes much heavier. MHO”

“Get the lightest tarp you can, I reccomend the Campmor Sil-Tarp 8'x10'. If you want just a little fancier, get the ID Sil-Tarp.

As for lightweight bags and stuff. Have you given thought to a blanket. I know a guy that made his own 20* down blanket that weighs only 17oz. I don't have the skills to do this, but Nunatak makes a 25* down blanket with a Pertex Endurance shell that weighs about 18-19oz.”

“Rock, thanks for that post. I'm not absolutely certain on the "lightest tarp", though. Frankly, I sorta like the protection of the Bat Ray, and it shaves almost 2 pounds off of what I already carry.

I'm a bit concerned about the lightest tarps sacrificing some of the protection from rain. I've looked at the Siltarps, and for the minimalist, they appear ideal. Still, I'm not entirely sold on something so "minimal". After all, I've never used one, and getting out from under a tent would be a brave step for me. I'm not counting it out, though, and that's why this thread is so important to me - I seek the opinions of my contemporaries, and credit them as being more valid than ads & marketing hype.”

“I use a sil-tarp with my Hennessey Hammock (another great idea for loosing weight), and have found it to be just as good as any other tarp material.

For those that haven't ever used Sil-Nylon, the stuff, it is supposedly the material of choice for hot air ballons and parachutes - weighing 1.1-1.3oz per square yard, and pretty tough. If you intend to let a ball of hot air keep you up in the air and alive at 500'+; you want durable material.

I haven't ever got wet using it, and although it seems like it would be as strong as a cheap plastic bag, it has stood up just fine in very gusty winds. My only complaint is it is noisy at times.”

“My take on the bag part: WM for ANY condition. I have two.

On the tarp: Silicone impregnated nylon tarps can't be beat for weight and are pricey unless you sew. They seem to be less fragile than they look. When I use mine the static electricity makes the thing a dust MAGNET! Just an observation, not a whine.
Sounds like you're like me about a tent. There are some nice solo tents out there now.And if you are in a buggy place most of the time a tent wins out.”

“For sleeping bag, you might check out the new backpacker gear guide, and check out the new "lightisright" company. They sound good, but are expensive.

Look for the cheapest tarp you can find. This way you can use the tarp to its fullest degree. Just lay down the tarp and fold the other half over you. You probably don't want to do that with a siltarp.”

“I would rather deal with a wet tarp then a wet tent. I just hate em in the summer time when it comes to bugs.”

“OBI?

"Zip Together"?

Is there something you're not telling us?

You have a potential little companion bag warmer you're hiding?”

“I saw a sweet 15 degree Down bag at REI I got my eye on. Time to save some money!”

“Just wishful thinking, Mel... I know of no woman in her right mind (read: sane) that would zip up next to me. But then, I haven't met ALL of them yet!

Tornado, I have that gear guide in front of me as I write... it's a great resource, and your point is not lost on me. Thanks!”

“OBI I get the feelin' you have a hankerin' fer the Batray...I think if that's what ya want...buy it!

As for a bag, don't settle for anything less than what you really want in a bag...just get it on sale!”

“I'm increasingly intrigued by some of the things I've heard about the Feathered Friends line of down-filled bags. They are supposedly high-quality, ultra-lite-weight, which is what I'm also looking for. They claim that some of the bad raps against wet down aren't quite true. I have a equipment - ultra-techie type friend who claims to have a Feathereed Friends bag that he had "customized" with something (?) that makes it highly water-repellent. I keep meaning to visit them when in the area, just haven't had the opportunity yet. Their site, www.featheredfriends.com, has some interesting stuff, make sure you go to their Q&A page. Worth a few minutes to check out. No I don't work for them , just interested in their stuff.”

“I'm another fan of WM bags. Robert and I have the ultralite. They do zip together but it is kinda snug in there. I also have the highlite I take when I leave the boyfriend home.
I have had the silnylon tarp--the Campmor one-- out in big wind and rain and it does fine. I think it is too delicate to use as a groundcloth.”

“So far, WM & FF get the votes... I wonder... anone got a Moonstone? I found an "800 Zone 1 Ultralight for $270 linked to the "Lightweight Backpacker" site... weighs 1# 12 oz.

The WM Iroquois & Arroyo also caught my eye... anyone know if they'll throw in a little extra fill?

Only problem here is, I wanted at least a "resistant" shell... DL would weigh more, but if I can keep a bag under 2#, I'd be happy... then again, I didn't read all the posts on the "Signs you love him/her" thread... Heheh (don't get excited, people... I'm straight as an arrow...)”

“For another view and some great (thought not super light) bags check out One of my bags is a wiggy and I love it.”

“For another view and some great (thought not super light) bags check out wiggys.com One of my bags is a wiggy and I love it.

[left out the wiggys.com]”

“Even though I already own 4 bags, I'm gonna work a couple of more Saturdays and save up for the Western Mountaineering Ultralight. I've wanted one for a long time. I could find and post a link to an unbelieveably detailed review given by "bigskyry" if anyone is really interested.”

“I don't know this man but he posts on an e-list I belong to. He writes the most consice reports I've ever read. I have a great deal of faith in what he says.

Read what he says about the WM Ultralite
HERE ”

“That's some report, Le Subtil... very thorough... almost sounds like the guy's a lab rat, having spent hours and hours testing and such... I could be swayed by his review, and will put the Ultralite at the top of my list...

Thanks.”

“Another option in a WM bag is the new Megalite. It's a 30 degree bag with a fuller cut. I got mine last week and tried it out last weekend in Arkansas. With 2oz. overfill, I was comfortable at a reported 17 degrees. I was in a tent, however. I haven't put it on the scales, but I'm guessing about 1lb13oz. (6'6", 2 0z overfill) The loft was approximately equal to my 15 degree Mountain Hardwear bag.”

“MaryPhyl, you just saved us a few hunerd bones! Thanks for the zipper tip. I think we'll just go for another Ultralite.

Le Subtil, good post! What an article. That's an interesting study on the bag and one with substance. It seems that Mr. Big Sky Ry made some pretty specific observations about how heatloss is nonlinear at different levels of loft. I wonder if Jardine discounts a bag rating as a function of loft given humans are largely exothermic at their extremities. That is, we tend to give off lotsa heat from our heads, hands and feet. ”

“Tekapo, you reminded me of something that crossed my desk a while back... here it is...

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so "profound" that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of
enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul
gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls
go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until
all Hell breaks loose.

2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you.", and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then, #2 cannot be
true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."

The student received the only "A" given.”

“Yeah, saw that and it tends to get you thinking. While the paper might be in jest, it does make an interesting up-front assumption in terms of the four dimensions we know.

"First we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time."

While it is accepted that a soul is never able to exit Hell, the student ignores its eternity. That is, while Hell is causal, that does not mean that it is somehow bound by time. Since Hell exists independent of time (it's eternal; timeless), could its three dimensional gases expand or contract as a function of time? Since they couldn't, then under what dimensional conditions could they expand or contract?

From what we're told, time does not exist
in Hell. And, for a "slower" or "faster" rate to occur in Hell, it must have a time base.”

“Hell to me, would be me not having a pinky finger!”

“...just found this good deal on sleeping bags and thought I would share:
SD ultralight

Sorry, Obi...it doesn't fit the bill for what you are looking for(no zip) but it still looks to be a great lightweight bag...and at a great price right now.

Hope it helps somebody...

:o)”

“Very tempting AmyG. I have been thinking of a stretchy bag for awhile.”

“new equipment. Did someone say new equipment???

http://space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_gear.html”

“I like my REI/Sierra Designs Sedona. It's a semi-rec. Of course there is heat loss with the extra foot space, but I can't tolerate a mummy.

Lookingglass has a Marmot w/hood that he is happy with. The zipper on his bag does not permit him to open the bag fully, like mine, and we can't attach them. We use mine for warm nice to put over the both of us.

I looked at Feathered Friends 3 yrs ago when I was looking for bags. They were too expensive for me. Their least expensive bags were too basic. They can add extra down to a bag of your choosing at an extra cost.”