Bush's Speech

“President Bush stated many of the problems of the country, and stated many of his solutions to these troubles. The top priority of education I think benefits all Americans the most, in the way of the intelligent will help the unintelligent become intelligent. President Bush spoke about a surplus, and he wants to follow up on his campaign slogan, it is not the governments money but the peoples money (or something like that). He restated that slogan and then a nice quote for the speech, ?the American people have over paid and I am here on behalf of the American people I ask for a refund?. President Bush also stated that he wants to spend more money to help preserve are national parks, and keep the air clean and water clear. He also said that he wants to put more money into the budget for social security, and abolish the taking from the social security.

I believe that by putting great efforts in to education and character programs will benefit the entire country by the intelligent will help the unintelligent become intelligent. The younger pupils that are fresh out of the school systems will be some of the brightest Americans and in that hope, they will be some of the most helpful Americans. In that plan they will be able to teacher the open minder with there recently educated minds the most recent facts and knowledge.

I believe in full that there is too much money being collected in taxes and that there is plenty to give back. As the example that President bush made of that family that the extra 1600 dollars will be enough to by 3 months of groceries, a year of gas for 2 cars, and so much more. This will benefit all, not just the rich in the top tax bracket with the tax 1% tax cut, from 34% to 33% over time that will save them thousands. In addition, it saves us money too, like the example that President Bush used of the waitress that the people below 25,000 a year will also get a large tax cut, and so many people will be taken off the income tax roll completely. Those that pay 15% now will pay 10%, lowering of the marriage tax, and my important issue with the American government is the national debt that he abolishing with giving it 2 trillion dollars.

As with all of your concerns of the national parks issues, he did address well. Bush said that would put millions in to saving the national parks and toxic waste dumps that are destroying the ecosystem. (I?m sorry I don?t have much on this issue I walked out of the room for a second so that?s all I heard. Can some one else please fill every one in on what ells he said.)

President Bush stated many times that he will never take money from the social security budget to pay of debts and or give to other needs. He actually stated that he was planning to put more money into SS for when the ?baby boomers? have to retire and will call on SS for help.”

“To conclude his speech and a recent discovery in the election, Bush has done a extravagant job so far. He did not stutter, loose his place, or mispronounce to many words. He was interrupted some 85 times during his speech, to many by my guess. He did a great job and helping the American dream come true. On the recent news, story that was broken 2 or so days ago there was a study completed that showed that under the most liberals standards in the ballot counting Gore still would have lost, and he would have only gained 49 votes. Bush has now for sure won right fully and now he has made a great speech with all the right items to address and state how he plans to solve all the problems.”

“null”

“We must be on the same wavelength DM.”

“oops, shouldn't have used html tags.

My post had said

[applause]”

“oldie
DM really did post something and his HTML was a we bit off. Just check the coding.”

“Ice Tea, do you question anything that's crammed down your throat?”

“Regardless how you feel about him politically --

It's pretty obvious he will not be known for his speaking ability.”

“Anybody count how many times the crowd stood up and clapped?

Ask anybody in congress and I'll bet they'll say "Too Many!"”

“He's not the greatest statesman, but he is the man in charge. Who caught the finger the gesture that held off the applause.

"Anybody count how many times the crowd stood up and clapped?

Ask anybody in congress and I'll bet they'll say "Too Many!""
Buddur
2/28/01

Some might also say "That maybe the only time we see our government in action"”

“Anyone notice how he will be developing energy? Read bye-bye wilderness.”

“Progress can really suck sometime!”

“I like how the politicians choose non-volatile issues to champion. As if anyone would fight against better education!

Who will take up a fight of any real planetary significance, like how we are consuming all of the world's resources?”

“GO BUSH! FYI: AlGore was not quite the environmentalist he tried to portray. "Mr. Green" (nader) had a tree-hugging plank but nothing else.

Let's face it--I would assume most/all of us in here love the outdoors; however, there is more to running a nation than watching out for the spotted owl. We're to be stewards of our country/earth, not protectors at the expense of ourselves. Yeah, you guessed it--I am one of those "Right-Wing Fundamentalist Christian Extremists"

Proud of it, too. :)”

“Boy, Toaster, you sure know how to kill a string. Take out the old "conservative christian" card and slap it on the table, huh?”

“I think Bush did a very good job with the speech. He stuck to his concepts and struck a warm positive bipartisan tone. He played from his strengths very nicely. If he can maintain this style, he may get a lot of his agenda through.

One of these days I'll work up enuff outrage to rant and rave about eliminating the so called "death tax," I think we'd be a far less democratic country without it. But for now, I'll just send up this trial balloon on the issue.”

“Ice Tea -
"and my important issue with the American government is the national debt that he abolishing with giving it 2 trillion dollars."

Isn't impossible to ablolish the national debt due to the fact that the bonds people bought to reduce the debt won't be mature for another 5-10 years. Therefore if the debt was gone today, the bonds would be worth less than what people paid for them. I'm not pretending to know all, I just listen to NPR on the way to work in the morning.”

“PedXing: Right on with the "death tax," but I don't understand the quip about, ". . .we'd be a far less democratic country without it."

Could you expound on that statement? Thanks.”

“Yeah Ped, can you expound on your statement. Here's my perspective, I bust my butt accumulating wealth on which I pay taxes (income, capital gains, etc). When I kick the bucket, why should my heirs have to pay the government taxes on money for which I've already paid taxes?

How would we be a far less democratic country if we eliminated the death tax?”

“Yeah, Barium, I like the fact that we pay taxes all the way to the grave: we pay payroll taxes (like Social inSecurity, etc.) then we pay income taxes on our paycheck before we ever get it. then we buy something, like a car, and have to pay sales tax. then we have to license the car--every year. then, if we sell the car, we pay tax AGAIN! If we keep the car, we pay property tax EVERY YEAR.

don't get me wrong--I understand how much our taxes pay for--roads, defense, assistance for the less fortunate, etc. I just think that the "surplus" is a code for "over-taxation."

Remember: The Boston Tea Party was over the imposition of a paltry little 3% tax. Think about it. . . .”

“I' for a lot less taxes. Why should you have to pay to die? Is it supposed to be an effort to keep people from dieing?”

“Ped ? The extremely rich don?t pay no stinkin? death tax anyway. They avoid it with trusts and other tactics that are all legal. The ones that are hurt are the ones that have wealth in the form of production assets and no cash. They have to liquidate the production assets to pay the tax. That means breaking up the business or selling it in whole to someone else like a larger corporation. This usually means some people lose their jobs. It is the small family business like farms that are hit the hardest. So what you are saying is that if all we have is large corporations and hourly workers, with not small businesses, it will make us more democratic? BTW The USA is a republic not a democracy anyway.”

“Is this similiar to the inheritance tax?

For starters, if your smart you will try to have all your assets/wealth/belongs divided up amongst those you care about. Unless of course it was a sudden death(ie accident), but if death is something that you can see coming eventually and can plan ahead for get/look into some(5,10 yr) life insurance policies that love ones can take out on you and start giving "gifts" to those you love.

Plan ahead so Uncle Sam does not ream you in the after life.

Jealousy is a latent issue here. The "have nots" not having what the "haves" already have. Which is money. I think it would benefit all economic classes if Gov. was to keep their hands of the dead mans money.
Think about it. Cash is Cash. A million dollar inheritance is nothing to a person who already has that even if it was taxed to 40%+ but on the otherhand something like a untaxed 100k or more inheritance to someone that has hardly anything could me the world to them and their families future.
I think it should go myself. It's just another example of how the Gov. is keeping you down. If you want to spread the wealth let the people do it and not the gov.”

“BaSO4, are you leaving more than $600,000? Because anything below that amount isn't taxed (and the cutoff goes up to $1M over the next few years).

Democracy depends on society being more meritocratic than aristocratic. (There's an economic efficiency argument along these lines as well, but that's another story.) The more wealth is inherited, the more society is pushed in the direction of aristocracy. That's the argument in a nutshell.

And about that bogus Miami Herald story: it ignores several inconvenient facts, including a) that if PBC had been counted by the same standard, Gore would have won by ~1,000 votes; and b) that the FSC ordered a statewide recount, which it's pretty clear Gore would have won, based on the media recount results so far. In any case, regardless of how Miami-Dade would have gone, Bush is illegitimate because he did everything possible to sever the result from the vote, to ensure that he would win regardless of how Florida voted. That's his true crime, and that's why he will never be the legitimate president.”

“Wasn't there a burning bush that spoke once?”

“Death / inheritance tax: $1,000,000 is not very much money when you are talking about the assets of a small business. The tax is on all assets not just cash.

Tehipite ? that is tripe. There are plenty of arguments on both sides to have made both Gore and Bush look ?illegitimate? regardless of who ended up it the Whitehouse. The fact is Bush is the president and was made so without the violation of any law, so he is legitimate in all possible legal terms. In your mind Bush would be illegitimate even if he had won by a landslide. You will win nothing by crying over the result. Save your energy for the next election. Please don?t bother arguing this with me. I would be saying the same thing to Bush supporters crying about Gore being in the Whitehouse had he won the court battle.”

“I don't understand you Toasty.”

“Mtn. Gal The very rich do lose money on estate and alternative inheritance taxes. There are loopholes, but they pay. One of the loopholes is charitable foundations which do interupt the inheritance of wealth.

If inheritance taxes didn't work on the very rich, the Carnegies, Mellons, Rockefellers (maybe even the Cabots and the Lodges) would be incredibly rich.

The small family business is no reason to eliminate the inheritance tax. All you have to do is allow an exemption for family businesses. For example if the exemption for a family business was 5 million dollars per family, a 5 million dollar family busineess would be inherited untouched. A 10 million dollar business would have roughly half the inheritance tax. A 20 million dollar family business would be taxed roughly 25%. A 100 million dollar business would be inherited with 5% les taxes paid.

Obviously we can argue about what the deduction should be, but you don't need to eliminate the inheritance tax for billion dollar estates so that a family farm with 2.3 million in land and equipment won't have to be sold off due to inheritance taxes.”

“mtn gal, that's a load of crap and you know it. I've lived through 5 elections in which the worst candidate won, and I was pissed off--but I never questioned their legitimacy, because they actually won. Bush didn't. He used every tool at his disposal, from his cousin at Fox (the first to call the election for him) to his campaign co-chair Katherine Harris to his rent-a-rioters in Miami to the partisan state legislature to his pals in Congress to his five criminal pals on the formerly Supreme Court, to guarantee that he would be elected regardless of how the vote went. Those efforts are inimical to democracy.

You can rationalize treason all you want, mtn gal, but it's still treason.”

“tehipite, your extremist views amaze me. Have you always been this angry?”

“I got news for you people: trickle-down economics doesn't work worth a piss.”

“Yeah! When I go looking for a job I go to the poor people and ask them to hire me.

Who said anything about trickle down? It is about keeping our production asset working and producing. We can only produce more total wealth by increasing our productivity. Taking away a persons ability to produce and giving the value of it in cash to a none producer (like the government) hurts us all, poor and rich.”

“Just since the so-called 'election', Dunk.”

“Don't you have some "resistance" to organize Tehipite? lol!

Sore Loserman!

8OP”

“Why do you ask, Nigal? Has your patriotism finally overcome your partisanship, and now you want to join? ;-)”

“pisgahforest:

what don't you understand? I'd love to share my views.”

“Burnt toast, how can 'surplus' mean over-taxation when we--you and I and everyone else who pays taxes--still owe several trillion dollars of debt? Wouldn't using that 'surplus' to pay off the debt faster be a lot more prudent, and save us--you, me, and everyone else who will be paying taxes in the future--a lot of money in the long term?”

“tehipite:

Think for a second what that "debt" is: it's money owed to ourselves! Savings bonds, municipal bonds, "borrowing" from one program to another.

the "debt" is all relative. Some confuse the trade deficit with debt.”

“and besides, if there is more money returned to the contributor via tax cuts, more money will be available to pay down the debt. follow me on this: I get a tax cut (more disposable income in my paycheck) and I spend more==strengthening the economy==and more taxes (sales) are collected. more revenues are generated for the government==more available money to "pay down the debt."

clear as mud?

GO BUSH!”

“The man did good”

“Burnt toast, regardless of who holds the debt, the government--that is, the taxpayers--owe interest on it. The larger it is, the more interest we have to pay. The longer the debt remains, the more we end up paying overall. And the set of bondholders is not congruent with the set of taxpayers, so the 'we owe it to ourselves' argument is only half true; as long as the debt remains, money is being redistributed from one set of people to another.

And we've already tried the principle outlined in your second post; the result was the trillions of dollars of debt that we're paying off now.”

“My concern with any political speech is that it is usually offered in "code." It's often the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis come to life. Choose language that creates the reality you want. Terms such as "education" aren't offered for content but for symbolism, prompting what's called a "signal" or unreflective reaction. Does hearing "more money for education" make you feel good? Then it achieved its purpose as a political phrase.

When it comes to terms such as "education" did GWB ever define what he meant? If he did so with precision, then good for him. But I would guess he didn't. In that regard, he is probably no different than any mass market politician. But for any of them, you will never know what their intent is if they speak in undefined language. We all talk past each other if we can't agree on definitions.

My guess is that GWB's definition of "education" and Bill Clinton's, if either actually has one, and that of many teachers is not the same (and that's not to say that all the teachers agree either). That's just one issue. Try definining "wilderness" so we all agree. Or "tax" for that matter. I was at a meeting with reps of the Wisconsin Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters last night so I missed the speech. The academy wants to promote thoughtful citizenry in our state by "bringing all sides to the table." Talk about a challenge.”

“fu@k this!

i'm going hiking, tomorrow!”

“radagast:

some of us have jobs (we're the ones paying all the taxes) so we can't just go hiking.

have fun for us, though.”

“What burned me about the speech was Bush trying to make himself look like the environmental president by pledging money for parks and for the Land and Water Conversation Fund. Now, I'm pleased as punch that he's going to fund the LWCF, but all it really means is that he's going to allow the fund to get the money that was budgeted for it in past years. And national parks is easy, everybody likes national parks and blathering about "national treasures" sure sounds good on t.v.

But what about clean air and clean water and pollution and toxic waste and a host of other *real* *serious* environmental issues? Not a peep. And you won't hear one from him either, because his oil buddies don't like it.

Oh yeah, he also said he'd allocate money to clean up brownfields. Of course, he won't do anything to stop his corporate buddies from creating new ones.”

“burnt toast,

you DON'T want to start that sh!t with me.”

“fight! fight! fight! Fight! Awh the teacher broke them up again.”

“before you throw down some sh!t like that, you may want to read some of my past posts.

umm, ignore the ones about beer and sex. LOL!!!!”

“I helped elect Bush.”