another school shooting

“I like our dumb-ass president's comment that, "...someone failed to teach this boy right from wrong..."

Oh sh!t, its just that simple, like our president.
The kid must have thought that shooting and killing people was "right".”

“Doesn't all the media hype and sensationalized attention to high school killings have something to do with why they keep happening?”

“Ice Tea, "Its the parents"????
That's another easy answer.
Its the kid who did the deed.”

“i agree, tom.

fry that punk!

bzzt!!!”

“Artex Im with you a good checkmate is much better than splattering somebody's brains.

The fact that the kid got picked on is part of the problem, however it is a very small part. I mean I got messed with when I was in highschool, I think in some way we all did. I never even considered killing someone for picking on me though. The boy had no sense of self worth, thats partly his community as a wholes fault but mostly his own. And no one else should be held responsible for his own actions except him, and maybe the dumb ass who doesn't know how to keep his guns locked up like a responsible citizen. Should other people feel guilty ,his parents, friends and people who messed with him? Most defiantly if they dont then they're as f*$% up as this kid is.”

“some good comments and plenty of ignorant/moronic ones”

“Tom, I'm not at all amazed that someone in here would take this tradegy and turn it around into a personal slam on the president. Kudos to you and your wonderful enlighting statement to seemed to some up your perspective on this issue.

It obviously sounds as if you have the answer that is ailing the children of America. Slamming the president right!!

Knowing that you are a father what have you done to better you children? We all know the "blaming it on the parents" or "blaming the society" maybe a cop out statements but what is the issue and/or cause of these tradegies. Certainly it can't be gun control right!!

NO duh! Its the kid who did the deed, geeze Tom thanks for telling me that, I was afraid it might have been his working father or the mother that lives in another state.”

“Ice....
Not all kids are as mature and capable as you are.
Obviously, there are always a few kids who are negatively impacted by this kind of sh!t.
If the worst garbage were unilaterily banned, we wouldn't have to worry quite so much about the bad apples.
We won't inadvertantly be encouraging the little criminals.”

“PedXing, I believe in your thought there. Just like in base ball games, if some one in to run onto the field the cameras no longer broadcast the field runners over TV. The MBL believes that if the runners get less attention then less people will want to bum rush the field.”

“I agree with everyone who said it's the parents fault. Yes, the kid should be fried to a crisp but how did he mentally end up in this situation?

My fiance is a second grade teacher at an "at risk" school. She has 18 students, about half are "ESL" or "english as a second language", and legally she is only allowed to teach 16 but that's a different problem for another time. Everyday she vents/downloads on me because it is so emotionally stressing to her because so many parents don't give a sh#t about thier kids. I'm talking about 7 year olds that have to get up on their own, feed, dress, bathe, and get themselves to school everyday because mommy or daddy (very few intact families in this neighborhood) can't be bothered to help. She has to teach the importance of personal hygiene because the kids come to school smelly, dirty, and wearing the same clothes as the day before becuase the parents don't care.

One of her student's last year missed over 40 days becuase she had to stay home and babysit her 2 yr. old sister because mom had to work and dad wouldn't take care of the kid. I don't think their aree many parents on this site who would leave a 7 yr. old alone all day to take care of a 2 yr. old.
Another kid, extremely intelligent, was being raised by his grandparents because his parents split and niether of them wanted him. Well, grandpa dies, grandma is so distressed she has a stroke and does mom come to take care of her son? NO! He goes to live with an aunt until grandma is better.

Sorry to be so long winded but when you see the parallels between sh*tty parenting and the personal and educational growth of thier kids on a daily basis (I help grade homework too) it's just so obvious where a large part of the problem is coming from.”

“Amen to reptiles”

“Amen, sistahs!

Rabbit, ya buck-toothed varmint, leave it you to take advantage of my "slamming"(ouch, poor Young George!) the appointee to blame this tradgedy on ME!
Ya love George Bush, dontcha?

Go to the Photo Page, click on Tom Terrific and scroll to the bottom, and I DO mean BOTTOM!
Now pucker up and KISS IT!!! ;{}

And while yer at it, get a load of those three serial killerz who I'm scrupulously neglecting in the hope that they too will some day commit a school massacre!

How about you tend yer own garden, pal....
Hoe yer own row...

And as for the rest of you reactionaries, with or without children of your own, who want to second-guess or blame the parents, friends, teachers, grandma and grandpa, etc......
Let us see what kind of citizens yer children turn out to be!”

“ok, tom. i was agreeing with you. don't get too defensive, now!”

“Reptiles, Your fiance must be dedicated to stick with a job like that!

Children in those bad situations NEED intervention, early and ongoing.
If their "parents" won't take proper care of them, for the sake of us all, then it is up to the public, and in the public interest, intervene.

Some might decry that as "social engineering" and a waste of publc funds.
It is a waste to take only partial measures or no action at all.”

“So, Reptiles, in an essence what you're saying is that the break down of the family unit in American society has/does contribute largely to the problems we are seeing amongst the young. I think that you are right on. These kids will likely turn to gangs, drugs or whatever in order to reap the love and the sense of belonging that they lack in their homes.

It does not take a village, it take two committed parents. You need a license to drive, hunt, fish etc., but any two idiots can procreate and society be damned.”

“radagast, I'm OK dude, I was just taking the opportunity to create some of my much loved and witty prose!

I love pokin' Bush in the eye too!{}”

“I love pokin bush. Oh, you mean the president. Sorry, I'll get my mind out of the gutter.”

“Yes, she's very dedicated and she's in it to make a difference, because it's definately not the money.”

“I love sh!t like this one...
"I agree with everyone who said it's the parents fault. Yes, the kid should be fried to a crisp but how did he mentally end up in this situation?"
Now, if its the parents FAULT, why are you saying its okay to fry the kid?
Perhaps you mean its the parents fault that the kid had access to the gun (not the shooting itself?)”

“I should have been more clear, the root of this kids problems were likely caused by his family or lack thereof. However, his parents didn't tell him to go to school and kill people and they sure didn't hold his hand and help him pull the trigger. If he's in good or poor mental state he should still be held responsible for what he did.”

“I agree with Briar, this school shooting is Tom Terrific's fault.”

“tom terrific is the puppet master?!?!?!?

End of passion play, crumbling away
I'm your source of self-destruction
Veins that pump with fear, sucking darkest clear
Leading on your deaths construction
Taste me you will see
more is all you need
you're dedicated to
how I'm killing you

Come crawling faster
obey your Master
your life burns faster
obey your master

Master

Master of Puppets I'm pulling your strings
twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, `cause I'll hear you scream

Master
Master

Just call my name, `cause I'll hear you scream

Master
Master

Needlework the way, never you betray
life of death becoming clearer
Pain monopoly, ritual misery
chop your breakfast on a mirror

Master, Master, Where's the dreams that I've been after?
Master, Master, You promised only lies
Laughter, Laughter, All I hear and see is laughter
Laughter, Laughter, laughing at my cries

Hell is worth all that, natural habitat
just a rhyme without a reason
Neverending maze, drift on numbered days
now your life is out of season.”

“Whut duh.....?????
WHat the hell kinda galloping faggotry is that?

Everybody run,
the homecoming queen's got a gun!”

“ROTFLMAO!!!!

now THAT's funny!!!”

“WOW, you really are witty, I never would have quessed it and as far as kissing your a$$ I leave that to Lumpy.

As far as poking Bush in the eye, Tom that statement of yours was just plain stupid and really off the topic at hand. So Bush likes to "keep it simple" for the common man. Not everybody has the intellect that you have to see right through that statement. I'm having flashback to the Clinton era back when Columbine tradegy occured and Billy was talking about morality and the lack there of in the houses of America. Ironic wouldn't you say, Clinton talking about morality. Hey but that is HIStory.

Now I never blamed you for this shooting but if you feel that you might have help in this tradegy, I suggest you turn yourself in and do us all and your family a favor. Pray tell that you truly don't hope that you 3 boys will turn out to be serial killers. Gosh!, Tom Terrific that is a horrible thing to say. Hey but to each his own right.”

“BTW, at least Bush isn't out trying to make a law against something that is already against the law.

Wonder who did that a lot?”

“Duhhhh.....uhm........ Clinton............”

“It's still early yet, SGT R0ck. He's still got time to do that.

In answer to your question, two sources to get that information. Click a link, and take your pick of offenders.

rogues gallery 1

rogues gallery 2”

“Duh poor widdle wabbit!!!
Lighten up bun-face!

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
though my ass is swollen
keep them doughboys scrollin'
Rawhiiiiide!

Golly, I feel like such a meanie....

The occasional school massa-kree is a small price to pay for the countless hours of fun and recreation afforded to the citizens of this wonderful nation by our constitutional right to the proliferation and saturation of our nation with firearms!

Whoopee, we're all gonna die!”

“And I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Well, you can cool it,
You can heat it . . .
'Cause, baby, I don't need it . . .
Take your TV tube and eat it
'N all that phony stuff on sports
'N all the unconfirmed reports
You know I watched that rotten box
Until my head begin to hurt
From checkin' out the way
The newsman say they get the dirt
Before the guys on channel so-and-so

And further they assert
That any show they'll interrupt
To bring you news if it comes up
They say that if the place blows up
They will be the first to tell,
Because the boys they got downtown
Are workin' hard and doin' swell,
And if anybody gets the news
Before it hits the street,
They say that no one blabs it faster
Their coverage can't be beat
fz”

“Zzzzzzappa???”

“but of course!
I believe that the media has an awful lot to do with these attention seekers. Their rush to be the first with late breaking news often gets in the way of sense. I doubt this kid would have thought to randomly shoot-up his school had it not been for all the attention of the Collumbine shooting. I wonder how many times his father and mother will be seen together at newsconferences, court dates etc. I'd venture to say that that may have been a motivation for his actions
As interested as I am in this "affair" because I have a high school freshman, I'm not certain viewing all the coverage with him would be the wisest thing to do. We share "quality time" but don't want anyone to give the hint that this is in anyway an understandable way to deal with teenage angst.

my $.02”

“Well, hell no its not!

My two oldest boys are in 12th and 9th.
They mostly ignore the snobsters.

Number Two Son and some of his pals have been shopping for clothes at thrift stores.....some retro and old-man trousers, etc.
When a preppy jerk-off attempted a put down with, .."so whatta ya do shop at a thrift store?", the answer was, ....."yeah....", and the jerk-off was sent packing.

I have had reports of merciless picking by some on an unfortunate few at their school, but my guys have not been victims and certainly not bullies.

My 5th grader has identified one boy who took a turn at him....mostly about Number Three's wearing glasses beginning last year.
The same kid has decided to pick on another boy lately.
Its been verbal abuse....thus far.”

“This problem is not caused by guns being legal. Somebody with some spare time do a little research on past school shootings. My bet is that most of the perpetrators had the guns illegally. In this case I heard that the shooter ?stole? the gun from his father. I say stole because he took the gun without permission which is a theft. So if these kids are going to break the law to get a gun now, why would they obey the law when all guns are outlawed? If you are talking about removing them from our society so they are just unavailable, that may work. Work just like it has worked for drugs. Guns are A problem but not the THE problem. Part of the equation is that our society has devalued the status of good parenthood. The involvement of fathers and praise for the stay at home Mom is deficient in our culture. In addition to criticizing the NRA dump on the N.O.W. too.

If it matters, I am not a gun nut, don?t have one. The introduction of a viable gun probation law would motivate me to change my ownership status.”

“Thats the stupidist sh!t I've ever read here. To imply that if the kid couldn't steal the gun from Dad, he would have stolen it otherwise is, is, is... so f'ing stupid!
Adolescents spend inordinate amounts of time snooping around the house and he knew where the ammo was from years of snooping. Iff'n he chickened out he could have returned it to its rightful place and no one would have been the wiser.”

“So they all got their guns from their dads? I think the columbine boys bought some of their guns in violation of gun laws. Neither you or I know to what extents the kid would have gone to in obtaining a gun. Of course he did it the easiest way.

?Profanity is the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcefully.?”

“As a former member of the media, I support the message that you must not trust the media; do your own homework, question all sources of info.

Statistics I've seen show school violence and killing is actually on the decline through this whole "epidemic" of school shootings. Now that it is happening in concentrated doses at suburban, affluent schools, it is suddenly of great concern on the evening news. Inner city schools have actually reduced the level of violence and killings, but now there's no graphic story so who knows about it.

Someone above mentioned counselors. If Santana H.S. is like the h.s. here, it is woefully understaffed for counseling. Our town has a class A high school (1300 or so students) with only 4 counselors. The counselors are often reassigned to cover classes when subs aren't found, or to other scut work. And we won't get into whether all 4 are good conselors to start with. Nice counselor to student ratio, huh? So tell me that any troubled student gets actually noticed or good advice. The gun becomes the "equalizer" when harrassed by those at school and no outlet at home (talking to parents and getting more support than "be a man, stand up to those punks" or "What, did you say something?"). In a twisted way, I think these kids get the message that they must seize the initiative. No one else is going to help them.

One of my students killed himself the other day. I was at his funeral yesterday. He had a lot of issues in his life. Our college special needs staff was working intensively with him to help him succeed over severe learning problems. He was 35 with two kids. He was very smart, though that apparently wasn't discovered until he got tested when he became eligible for voc. rehab. He thought he was stupid for most of his life. He thought no one cared or would like him if he revealed his weaknesses. He had struggled with a huge burden for decades. He fought shame. He was a rough looking biker from the outside, a shy, family man inside. He didn't take anybody with him. But he took a part of a lot of people with him. I cannot imagine the frustration he faced.

Nor can I imagine the frustration that slight, 15-year-old freshman faced after moving across the country and trying to fit in at a time in life where that is so crucial. H.S. is not a place for the weak of spirit. It can be cruel and vicious (not always intentionally), and it can also be exciting and energizing.

As for Dubya, I can only imagine what kind of hazing of the weak and geeky took place at his East Coat prep school. Let him look that kid in the eye and mumble about values. My guess is that kid felt like no one valued him anymore. What he did was horrible. That no one saw it coming is just as bad.”

“The two kids who shot up the school in Jonesboro Arkansas stole the guns they used from a cops gun safe. They used an oxygen/acetylene torch. Pretty spooky.”

“Yesterday in Philly, an eight year old took a gun to school. A real one and a clip! He was threatening to off his 8 year old classmate. He didn't purchase the gun on the street (though his uncle, who was charged btw, may have) or steal it by breaking into someones home. It was left where he could get his hands on it. Alot of kids brandish (I love that word) firearms and do stupid stuff. I guess kids always have (I know I did when I was a pup, but fortunatelly no one got hurt.) I'm not stating here whether gun ownership should be outlawed or not. I feel that to assume that kids who get caught with guns would have gotten them anyhow, had they not been so easily found in their own home, is contrary to my personal experience.
Mtn Gal, sorry. No, what you wrote is not really the stupidest sh!t I've read on this board. I've said that one before. It really gets people's attention! I've tried to clean up my thoughts above.
Cheers!”

“I think the father of that youth responsible for the San Diego shooting should be held liable for his son's actions as well. He left the handgun out and available for his son to have access to.”

“Newt Gingrich proposed compulsory orphanages for kids like the one's described by Reptiles. But Newt was a freak, right?


1300 counselors for a school with a four student enrollment would not neccessarily be able to foresee such a tragedy as this.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men?"
~ Orson Wells

Inner-city schools have experienced a decline in violence due mostly to a tremendous increase in security measures, ie, SROs (School Resource Oficers), gun dogs, metal detectors, bookbag bans, etc. Who knows - suburban schools may follow suit someday.”

“Yeah, shcools may have to tighten up like airports.

Guns are part of problem.
The availability and proliferation certainly feed the problem.
Its tough to have a war with no weapons.

Japanese students here at my university have expressed
amazement and even fear at the "gun culture" here in America.

We can't curtail gun violence with a "Just Say No" attitude.

Here in Maryland there is a proposal to teach "gun safety" in the public schools.
I find that rather suspect.
If the idea is to promote gun use, albeit "safe" gun use, then it is a sham and a ploy to just sell more of the "product".

I have NO problem with teaching safe sex in the public schools.
Everybody's got one of THOSE anyway.
And sooner or later they're going to use it!
They SHOULD learn how to use it wisely.”

“at your university?

would that be UMBC?

my wife went there.”

“Off the gun issue. The act of taking a gun to school and shooting people appears to me to be a alternate to suicide. The kids know that they wouldn?t get away with it. They know that they will spend most of the rest of their lives in jail. They have given up on life. Their chances for a normal life are over. The precursors to the two acts also seam to have some similarities. So some of you psychological types out there, what do think? Are there similarities between suicide and some of these shooting incidents?”

“Gojo, do you really think that providing a suitable level of counseling to adolescents, suitable both in terms of numbers for availability/access and training for effectiveness/appropriate response, is not going to significantly affect awareness of what is going on in kids' heads? This kid at Santana was practically screaming for some assistance dealing with his problems and it seems everyone he had direct contact with blew it off. But his friends are just other kids, and the boy friend of his mother who now feels so guilty didn't seem to have any awareness of what were legitimate signs of disturbance in comparison with his own confusion with modern life.

As for the inner city schools, you are absolutey right. Those schools implemented measures that directly dealt with the issue. Their issues were a proliferation of weapons of all kind, both for agression and personal protection. The violent assaults were of a different nature than Columbine or Santana, and the measures to deal with them need to be different, too. Preventing a gang confrontation or an armed robbery/shooting over a pair of Air Jordans is quite a different issue than premeditated mass shootings. But the inner city schools did do something that has worked. I believe in the Bill of Rights passionately, but I don't believe that we can tell an inner city youth he or she doesn't have the right to be free from assault on school grounds so an education is available. Metal detectors and guards at a particular school? Better than telling the who citizenry of the country they must surrender their guns.

Will that work at Santana? Let's see, it's an open design campus, so I doubt there is enough in the budget for the number of metal detectors it would take. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is a hysterical push for such an ineffective measure rather than budget for an adequate counseling staff that is properly prepared to give support to troubled teens. And as I recall H.S., troubled teens are the majority of the school population in one way or another.”

“I think that a major part of the problem is our society's total lack of respect for life.”

“Oh our society respects life, many of the citizenry just don't respect the way others may be living it.”

“radagast, I'm at Towson University....also part of the state system.”

“Whatever pekka. That's how come we throw babies down the drain by the thousands every year and think it's a great idea to put our ill and older citizens to sleep like a dog. We glorify killing in the USA and you CANNOT convince me that we teach our children to respect life and cherish it in this country.”

“Actually guns are less available than ever. When I was younger a person could order one through the mail or go down to the hardware store and get one. I knew where the ones were in our home but even though I was picked on daily in sixth grade I didn't even think about getting it to shoot the bullies. Ya know why? Cause my parents were the boss and would not have approved. When these kids do something like this, in addition to glorifieing it in the media, we search for "the root of the problem". So by vilifiying an object, guns for instance, then when a person gets their hands on one they feel justified in using it because "it's the guns fault" and they are not to blame. People are conditioned to believe they have no responsiblilty for their actions. There is always an excuse, society dissed me, it was the availibility of a gun, my parents were mean, whatever. I'm not going to even go into the proliferation of psycotropic drugs.
When I go on vacation I'm taking my guns to my friends parents house cause I don't trust the neighbors kids. They would have a week to break in and rummage through the house, plenty of time to find a way to open the gun safe, and of course it would all be my fault for having something that could be stolen.
For the record: I think Bushs' comment made perfect sense.”