Llama Rama - Another Breakoff Group?

“After studying the excellent maps that Mel sent us and comtemplating the long hike up to the rumored hot springs I have begun to ruminate on an idea. At first it was just a tiny idea, and then it bagan to grow and grow.

If you'll notice on Map 2 near the site of our first campsite is a dotted line indicating a trail or XC route over to our eigth day rendevous spot with all the folks coming back from Crabtree Pass and the Miter Basin. Well I've been thinking about heading up into the Miter Basin on the second day. I want to base camp and day hike around up there. Has anyone else been thinking along these lines? Just an idea. Mel are there bears up in that area? Will I need to buy a bear cannister since I would be sans llamas and my llama mama?”

“i too have been looking at the beautiful map mel has sent...and getting same ideas too..........i suppose i was going to wait til we got to mels to ask about such things........how the permit issue would some into play ....it seems with 20 people, the breakoff groups would occur naturally..... i was thinking...wild llamas would have to drag me away from the hot springs once i saw them....”

“I can understand wanting to soak in hot water for hours. I'm getting old and creaky so I need that sort of therapy. What I'm wondering though is if we know about them then will everyone else know about them too? It could wind up being a long haul to a crowded zoo. Correct me if I'm wrong Mel but isn't that area very popular?

I kinda like the idea of finding one or two nice back country spots and just kicking back and relaxing. Maybe doing some fishing, reading, and sleeping.”

“What!?
Am I going to end up missing half the people I started with?

I would prefer (although Sol has run his idea past me before) to not have EVERYONE running off in different directions to do their own thing.
Day hikes would seem to be OK if they would not cause you to miss us at any particular evening camp.
I don't particularly relish the idea of wondering just where the hell everyone went each day.
If you run into a ranger, and I hold the permit, the ranger will ask you for YOUR permit.
The purpose of this "group Trail Talk hike" was to be just that: a group of Trail Talk hikers.
If Robert wants to run off, he can, since he experienced such poor fishing last year.
But if we start having a herd of splinter groups, you're going to have to get yourselves an extra permit to travel anywhere you spend the night without me.
Miter Basin & Crabtree Pass aren't so crucial; those places are out of the way and off the main drag.
You all start running off from the group and making your own trips, we could have some trouble.”

“Yeah yeah yeah...blah blah blah.... Listen Mom...I mean Mel. I would be a good boy and meet you back at the rendevous point at the agreed upon time.
If I didn't show you'd know the bears would have gotten me. You could go by the ranger station in Lone Pine and tell them to send up a helicopter rescue. Now tell me Tonto, are there bears up yonder?”

“Oh, boy, here we go...

I don't know why anyone would want to join a group hike and then *not* camp with the group for something like 6 out 9 nights. Seems to defeat the purpose.

On the other hand, the more people take a powder, the more of *my* gear the llamas can carry!

The hot springs we're going to are not on any map and not in any guidebook. They are off the trail and unknown. We will very likely be the only group there. Of course, with 20 crazy naked lunatics of our own, we'll constitute a "zoo" all by ourselves.

Miter Basin is a cold, high-alpine, high-altitude, harsh and rocky place. Check out Phil Arnot's book for some great details. It sounds like a very cool place to explore, and I've been jonesing to visit there for years. But it does not strike me as a place to kick back and relax for 4 or 5 days. There are a number of other places on this trip that are more likely candidates.

As I've said before, I do intend to do a bunch of dayhikes, and I hope others will join me on them, but I also expect to rejoin the group every night. These dayhikes include a trip to summit Mt. Guyot for it's view of Kern Canyon, and to the summit of Mt. Langley, for it's view as well as to bag another 14er. And of course the stay in Miter Basin will feature numerous dayhikes. But the discussion now seems to be running toward breaking off to do less, not breaking off to do more.”

“Well the rumors of hot springs could in fact be just rumors. And do ya really think we're the only group who ever hiked the High Sieera that has heard of the alleged hot springs?

And the pictures I saw of the Miter Basin at aboveCalifornia.com make it look kinda nice and cozy to me. It couldn't be any colder than Wallace Lake or Anvil Camp last year. Bet there's probably plenty of firewood up there too.
Firewood for big blazing white man bonfires. And what appeals to me is I like the idea of getting to see the Miter without having to go over Crabtree Pass.

PS: Mel I just want you to know that Explorer is the villian here. He's the one who got me into thinking about side trips and lazy afternoons sitting around just chewing on blades of grass. LOL!”

“The hot springs come to you, and to us, courtesy of a TT lurker who has, himself, soaked in them.
He lives here in California, and I have had prior contact with him through my website.
The hot springs are there. We just have to find them.
There is a map available through the USGS that shows ALL the known (to the USGS)hot springs in California.
I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of that map.
John has one, but it is BURIED in our storage shed out in the yard, and I am FAR too lazy to try to dig it out.
Yes, Goldilocks, I believe there am bears where we is going.”

“Yes but are they up in the Miter Basin Tonto?”

“A few notes:

I'm sure we're not the only one's to know about they hot springs, but they are not widely known.

mel, I'd like a copy of that map!!

There are definitely bears at Soldier Lake at in Upper Rock Creek. Bears frequently wander above tree line to steal food, so I would think cannisters would be a necessity in Miter Basin.

Fires - campfires are prohibited in Miter Basin above 10800', which if you look at a map means pretty much the entire basin. Fires are also prohibited within 1200' of Lower Soldier Lake and above 10800' on the New Army Pass Trail. Anywhere else in the Kern drainage (which is pretty much our entire trip) fires are prohibited above 11200'. We may want to choose which Crabtree Lake we camp at based on this regulation.

I'd imagine the terrain around Sky Blue Lake is similar to the terrain around Wallace Lake.”

“There is NO wood at Sky Blue Lk. and very little after about 1 mile up Miter Basin. There is an established camp site just a little ways up the basin from Lower Soldier Lk. Lots of grass, a little wood, and a nice slow moving creek.

Sol if you want to see Miter Basin, the best way is to do Crabtree Pass. IMHO”

“out of all my brothers and sisters... i was the one my mom always had to send the posse out for when we went into the woods.....
i'll be good mel... just dont let me get zoned out.....:)”

“Mel - I'm sticking with the plan (except the 7 day group may hike a different trail to Mt. Whitney...to be determined).

Wouldn't it be cool if we could get some GPS coordinates for those hot springs?

I'm afraid that if we splinter up too much, some people may miss their rides home.”

“Nav,
To see the Miter Basin I would have to go over Crabtree Pass. The description of it at the aboveCailfornia.com makes it sound kinda bad with plenty of loose scree and other stuff to help you break a leg. It was bad enough for the aboveCali group climbing the route our XC group wants to descend.

And as far as spending 6 out of 9 days camping alone that's not really true as I would regroup with the XC group probably by the sixth day in the Basin.

Nothing is final. I haven't decided to do this as I am just throwing the idea around. The one thing that appeals to me is not having to force march back down the trail I just hiked up in order to rendevous with the XC group in order to hike out on time. Hiking is great but I like layovers too. I'd like some time to just sit still and enjoy the scenery.”

“Yeah, for those of us not doing Crabtree, we will have one layover day at or near Crabtree Lakes, the turn-ass-back to hike about 14 miles in two days to the trail into Miter Basin.
We get there, and we get another layover day.
Out of a possible 10 days, the folks who hang with me for the entire time we're out, will get two layover days, as opposed to the four that the Crabtree pass will get.
Phil.......
Have you checked out Secor's Peaks Passes and Trails about the Whitney Pass route?
I'll give you another link to go to to get your questions answered.

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sequoiakingscanyonhikers

These guys (and ladies, too) do a LOT of XC down in that area. If anyone were to know that route, someone there would!”

“Sol if you want pictures of Miter Basin e-mail me. I have a few from the trip I made a few years back. We didn't make it to Crabtree Pass, But I don't think it would be as bad you think. Plus think of the adventure!”

“Sol, here's another idea. Stick with the group and go back with the llamas and do Miter Basin as a day hike. Up to Sky Blue Lk. would be a nice walk without a pack.”

“....And he says he's a "naviguesser"!
Oh, pish tosh.”

“I tell ya, it's this way!
I think.”

“Mel - Thanks for the lead...I'll follow it up.”