Buddhas

“i know we talked about this, briefly, on another thread, but here is the latest news. man, this is quite sickening.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/12/afghan.buddha.01/index.html”

“I don't know. I'm torn on this one. One side is saddened by the destruction of ancient art.
The other side understands the commandment against idolatry shared by jews, christians and muslims. I know that I feel like cheering when in the Bible a king is in power who destroys the idols and alters of the pagan gods erected by sinning jews.”

“I think it is interesting that there is a much bigger outcry from the world about blowing up a couple of statues than the terrible treatment of women by the taliban.

Also, as violin says, most religions are guilty of the same kind of destruction.”

“yeah, there was another article that i saw which was a bit more focused on the treatment of women. i think this just brought it to the world's attention. strange priorities, huh?

whatever happened to that massive dam in china that they were destroying all of the temples and villiages for?”

“The dam is still being built. Hundreds if not thousands have died in the construction. All the temples and human artifacts are destine for a watery grave. Hey but think of the countless lives that the dam may save from yearly flooding and the energy it will produce. Payoffs are a beyatch.”

“isn't it supposed to be the largest dam in the world? that's dam big.”

“The destruction of those ancient cultural artifacts is a tragedy indeed. A person taking the attitude that loosing a couple statues here and a couple temples there isn't a big deal, 'cause there's lots of others misses the fact that there is only a finite number of these places and that destroying one could be the destruction of some great revelation in cultural and religious history that is yet undiscovered. One thing about the dam - I am only very vaguely aware of the issue - Yes, the water will cover up these historic sites, but they will be preserved. The dam will eventually crumble or be dismantled, when that happens the temples will still be there (even though they will undoubtedly have sustained some damage).

And as far as the treatment of women goes... Yes, I think that the Taliban's approach to women is poor, but it is not our place to impose our values upon others. We are not and should not be a cultural empire.”

“Religion. It is the root of most of the evil committed in the world, historically and today. The things people will do because they think God wants them to make me want to barf. The Rolling Stones sum it up well: "I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the God they made..."”

“Somebody as to speak up for what is right, Oldie! The oppressed can't do it. Are we to sit idly by and watch this discrimation and ethnic cleansing that has been occuring across the waters. I don't like imposing our culture on others anymore than the next American but it needs to be done.”

“The dam in China (Three Gorges?) will be the worlds largest dam, and is the largest construction project currently underway on the planet. BTW - Epcot Center was once the worlds largest construction project.

No biggy... I fish, swim, and ski over submerged artifacts all the time.”

“I?m a bit indifferent to it all. On one hand it could be art, on the other they are false idols. The only time a statue or graven image becomes bad is when you bow to it. Then it becomes a false idol or god. It?s human nature to look for God in things that we can see because it makes us feel better because we then think we can ?see? God. God isn?t in some statue, picture, ark, tree or moon. In the old testament God used totems and things like the Arc of the Covenant to manifest Himself to His people but we have no need of idols now.

I do find it disturbing when there is a loss of native culture though, as Oldie spoke of. I believe the Christian missions that have gone all over the globe have been a bit insensitive to the native cultures they expose to Christianity. Yes, it is the Great Commission to baptize the nations and tell the good news but many missions destroy the people they try to reach by bringing in too much western culture. In many countries the missions came in, modernized everyone, and said, ?Our work is done here.? And then abandon the indigenous people after they had given up their primitive way of supporting themselves. Christianity shouldn?t replace a culture but it is best if it can complement it. There are some missions now that tech Christianity commingled with benign aspects of the people?s currant religions. Like letting converted Islamics know it?s OK to kneel and face the east on their rugs to pray to God.

For us Americans to think that a country clear on the other side of the globe should have all the political rights, customs and privileges of our country is the highest order of elitist stupidity there is. The world is far greater than just our country and culture and it?s foolish to think we can force our politics and policies on other countries. Is it any wonder we Americans are hated so much? Just my 2 cents and not to be taken as an absolute, kay?

Dang! Maybe I should have just went straight to the ?My Opinion Thread?!

L8ter Daze!

Nigal”

“Maybe is time for the Russians to return to Afghanistan.”

“I thought God was everywhere for you religious people. In the hills and trees and in the statues(symbols) that represent him. That omnipresent thinging. I wonder how many early immigrants fell to their knees upon sight of the Statue of Liberty? God forbid we have freedom worshipers in this country.

Sure it easy to bash to early Missionaries for what they did to those lost cultures. What the early Americans did to the native inhabitants of this country. The languages and cultures lost all for our zealious beliefs. We knew no better at the time but early misssionaries did found ways to incorporate indigeniuos beliefs into those of Christianity. Question would those cultures or pieces of it have survived if not for that involvement? I seriously doubt it. We brought more than just religion and politics to these people.

Many of you like pianting a bad picture of U.S. for being to zealious, I guess? Would you like it some other way? I doubt it. This is the greatest place on the globe to live. The hatred of others stems from fear, ignorance and jealious of what we have.

I know you don't condone the behavior of these Talbans but how else would you curb their ways if not by imposing some of "our" ways. So I take you would like to sit idly by an watch millions dies form stravation and war just because you don't like the notion of "us" imposing of beliefs upon them. Somebody has to be the bigger bully on the block! Who else is going to stand up for the rights of humans if not us or is that piece of paper that so many of us hide behind worth nothing.”

“Buddist monks rock!
I would enjoy doing a retreat at one of their temples in the Himalayas.

goooooooooood folks!”

“to quote Oldie:

"The destruction of those ancient cultural artifacts is a tragedy indeed. A person taking the attitude that loosing a couple statues here and a couple temples there isn't a big deal, 'cause there's lots of others misses the fact that there is only a finite number of these places and that destroying one could be the destruction of some great revelation in cultural and religious history that is yet disscovered."

OK, I buy that, but his next paragraph says:



"And as far as the treatment of women goes... Yes, I think that the Taliban's approach to women is poor, but it is not our place to impose our values upon others. We are not and should not be a cultural empire."

Why is the culture of ancient artifacts worthy of the imposition of our values but the systematic degredation of a gender is not?”

“like i said in my second post, "strange priorities, huh?"”

“Thanks, pepperDog. I wanted to say something but didn't think I could handle any more personal attacks today. :o)”

“Yikes!!!! Am I going to get personally attacked? I will use Sunshine's post as a shield.”

“man, i'm like the boogieman, now.

boo!”

“Yar! Pepperdog you are personally blah blah blah. And YOU Sunshine... lol I'll argue, but I will rarely personally attack anyone - I've done it before and regretted it - so don't worry.

Cultural artifacts like those temples and ruins represent a culmination of thousands of years of human history. When they are gone, that's it. There's no going back. I am making this argument not solely for the historic sites in Afganistan, but for all sites with major historical and sociocultural significance; from places that still have living incarnations of the people who lived/worshiped there originally, to sites that are truely ancient and no longer have a living connection to the past.

I would argue that the US is not necessarily this glorious shining example of all that is perfect with the world. In past attempts to influence others to do what we want for our own goals we have started and prolonged wars that cost thousands and thousands of peoples lives. Islam is about 1500 years old and has roots in the Old Testiment and is - I believe - the second largest religion in the world. Now us telling the Taliban that they MUST treat their women with more respect would be similar to some big world power telling Christians that they cannot practice the different sacraments. From what I understand The Taliban practice strict orthodox Islam. Telling them - or forcing them - to change their values and ideals would be a grave mistake on our part. Not only would we anger the Taliban, but we wold anger countless millions around the world. Do the Taliban mistreat women - yes. Do I like it - no. But until it becomes something like sexual genocide on a wide scale it is not our place to intervene. The US does its share of unjust things. Matters like forcing the changing of beliefs are awfully delicate. I would put forth that making the Taliban change its ways would have grave consequences.

Oof-da, that took a lot out of me. Too much critical thinking and I'm pooped. I better go watch Dateline or something mind numbing. LOL. I'm working our information desk in a few moments so I won't be able to respond at least until midnight. So don't go and streatch this thread too long - I can only argue so many points at one time. LOL. Good night all.”

“When it comed to Buddurs...I'm all for the cause of savin'em!

Their devastation is a travesty!”

“I'm torn on this one. One side is saddened by the destruction of ancient art. The other side understands the commandment against idolatry shared by jews, christians and muslims.

Two questions:

1) If Christians share the commandment against idolatry, how come there's such a big-ass statue of Christ in every Christian church I've ever been in?

2) You say you understand the Muslim commandment against idolatry, but I wonder if your attitude would be so la-de-dah if the Taliban were destroying churches and Christian relics instead of statues of Buddha.

That second question also goes to everyone else who thinks this is all "no big deal."”

“Destruction sucks nomatter what it is, or how you look at it!”

“Good insight Explorer. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the Buddhas are worshiped as idols, they are simply statues. And even though the Buddhists and Hindus aren't in that part of the world in strength doesn't mean that their cultural artifacts should be destroyed.”

“It seems that the Taliban felt fear for what the statues represented. I would have loved to have seen them before they were senselessly torn down. I think this was typical of religious fundamentalists with too much political power.”

“Oldie, right on, all the more reason they shouldn't be destroyed.

When you've got Pakistan telling you you're extreme, you're definitely in trouble.”

“"The only thing that is goin on all the time is that everthing is changin all the time"
~Benji Man Frankly”

“Great replies and discussion! OK, I?ll bite for round two (and yes I'm goin' long!):

Explorer:
1) If Christians share the commandment against idolatry, how come there's such a big-ass statue of Christ in every Christian church I've ever been in?

The cross and the crucifix are not idols (in every case) but are symbols. Most churches do not bow down to an object such as the cross. Bowing down to someone/something is an act of submission or worship. This is the point you cross over from a symbol to an idol. Many more modern churches do not have crosses or symbols of any kind and I find this to be a good thing.


2) You say you understand the Muslim commandment against idolatry, but I wonder if your attitude would be so la-de-dah if the Taliban were destroying churches and Christian relics instead of statues of Buddha.

Yes, I?d be just as la-de-dah then because they are nothing more than objects and my faith doesn?t depend on objects.

Briar: this is not written in anger and I hope you aren?t offended by an opposing point of view, because that?s all it is is my view, kay?

?I thought God was everywhere for you religious people. In the hills and trees and in the statues(symbols) that represent him. That omnipresent thinging.

God is everywhere. All the more reason to not have to follow/worship creations rather than the creator.

?Many of you like painting a bad picture of U.S. for being to zealous, I guess??

I don?t paint it, I just say what I see in the painting.

?Would you like it some other way??

I sure would. There?s always room for improvement.

?This is the greatest place on the globe to live.?

Great ain?t always a synonym for best. It is the freest for sure and I?m thankful for that.

?I know you don't condone the behavior of these Talbans but how else would you curb their ways if not by imposing some of "our" ways.?

The simple fact that you believe their ways need to be curbed displays my point exactly. They have a different culture than we do. They live by different laws and morays. That doesn?t make them altogether wrong, just different.

?So I take you would like to sit idly by an watch millions dies form starvation and war just because you don't like the notion of "us" imposing of beliefs upon them.?

This would be a great question to ask the Yugoslavians after we spent months destroying their country. How about the hundred thousand or so Japanese we killed? And if we are so righteous in our standing on human rights, why is China our most favored trade country when they are so guilty of all the things you speak against? So it is our job to make these other countries more civil and peaceable, huh? Read USA Today lately? How can we force others to be civil when we can?t even be civil? We can?t even teach our kids not to slaughter each other. This is a whole other can of worms but?when the genocide took place in Rwanda we sat idly by and allowed over a 100,000 people to be slaughtered. There was great outcry and despair over our complacency. Yet, within the very borders of our great nation there are millions of babies killed every year?and it?s called our rights. Hypocrisy of the highest order IMHO.

?Somebody has to be the bigger bully on the block!?

This sounds like something Hitler, Satlin or Moa Setung would have said, no?

?or is that piece of paper that so many of us hide behind worth nothing?

[BUZZZZZZZ] Wrong answer! That piece of paper applies only to this country and can not be imposed on the rest of the world. Let me ask you this: If it is simply a matter of ?the one with the most power sets the rules? what would you think if China started pushing for their laws and customs to be established here in the US? That?s exactly how smaller countries feel when we do it.

I?m not painting a bad picture, just an altruistic one. America is great and I wouldn?t want to live anywhere else. It is the greatest nation ever established but at the same time I?ll not live in deception and blindly believe that every single law and custom is right.

Nige”

“Dang! I guess the empty can DOES rattle the most!”

“I'd love to give an opinion on this matter, but, I'm still waiting for Oprah's take on it.”

“Harry Truman said"The only thing new is the history you don"t know". This sort of thing has occured through out the ages and will continue as long as mankind chooses to live in ignorance and fear. I am a christian myself;however,I respect the beliefs of all. Extremist of any faith scare me. Being a history buff,I am aware that members of just about any and every faith have committed grave offenses toward their fellow man in the name of God. Again,it is mainly fear,ignorance and greed disguised as religion. My two cents.”

“I've read a lot about ancient "indians" in my area. The story is told that there were many very old "markers" for waypoints, and/or altars for petitioning the gods for safe passage, etc., which pre-dated the indians which we encountered. They referred to them as the ancients.

When the Catholic missionaries arrived in the new world, they we charged with, among other things, obliterating all of these markers on the pretext that they were "idols", and thus destroyed what few clues we may have about the "ancients". They would not even write in them in their otherwise detailed journals.”

“Gotta love religion.”

“Good discussion. A couple of things I have to answer.

The cross and the crucifix are not idols (in every case) but are symbols. Most churches do not bow down to an object such as the cross. Bowing down to someone/something is an act of submission or worship. This is the point you cross over from a symbol to an idol.

No bowing down in Church? Maybe not, but there is an awful lot of kneeling. Kneeling often directed at an emormous statue of Jesus. Yes, the statue is a symbol or a representation, not an idol, but that's an awfully fine line you're trying to draw. The buddhas are also symbols or representations, not idols.

Whether that fine line can be drawn at all was the very question that divided the Christian church in the great schism, when the Eastern Orthodox Church first split off from the Catholic Church in the fifth century.

Yes, I?d be just as la-de-dah then because they are nothing more than objects and my faith doesn?t depend on objects.

Then you possess an unusually Christ-like ability to turn the other cheek. See, just because they aren't religious relics (Buddha's own private prayer mat, St. John's chains, a piece of the true cross) doesn't mean they don't have value. To call them "just objects" is to dismiss the historical, cultural and artistic value of such artifacts. I'm not Muslim, but I've visited ancient mosques in the holy land and Moorish castles in Spain and though they have no religious significance to me I would think it real shame if they were destroyed.

Interesting story: when the Arabs took control of East Jerusalem in 1948, there were 50 synogogues in the old city as well as a multitude of mosques and churches. While the practice of numerous Christian faiths continued undisturbed, when the Isaelis took control of the city in 1967 all 50 synagogues had been destroyed. Hey, they were just buildings, and my faith doesn't depend on bricks and mortar does it? So why do I think this was so wrong? Nobody was using the buildings, right? And the people who destroyed them were just exercising their culture, right? No, they were making a concerted effort to erase the Jewish history of the city, to stamp out another culture. Which leads us directly into the next point.

The simple fact that you believe their ways need to be curbed displays my point exactly. They have a different culture than we do. They live by different laws and morays. That doesn?t make them altogether wrong, just different.

Aha. Here you fall into a common fallacy. The fallacy of cultural equivalence. The fallacy that says that everybody's culture is just as good as everybody else's culture.

It sounds good, but that is only true if both sides agree to fundamental right of the other side to continue to practice their culture. If the laws of your culture say that it is necessary to either kill or forcibly convert the practictioners of my culture, then your culture is wrong. Not different. Just wrong.

I concede that Western history is full of just this sort of cultural imperialism, of indiginous cultures beings wiped out by conquistadors and other European expansionists. Hell, human history is filled with it, going back to when Homo Sapiens beat the crap out of Homo neaderthalis and won the right to take over the planet in the first place. The more aggressive species won, and we've been proving it every since. But two wrongs don't make a right, and neither our bloody history or some arguable human rights violations within our own borders rob us of the moral right to protest genocide, literal or cultural, elsewhere in the world.

Sandy hit the nail on the head when he wrote "I am a christian myself;however,I respect the beliefs of all. Extremist of any faith scare me." Exactly right. It is possible to be faithful to your own beliefs and still respect the beliefs of others. Nobody is trying to make the Taliban convert to Buddhism or Christianity or anything else. We're simply asking them to behave like a civilized country and respect the most basic religious and human rights of their citizens. Don't tell me that "tolerance" and "human rights" are imperialistic, Western concepts. They are fundamental concepts that underlie the basic principals of every human religion, including Islam.

About a week ago, we were at a friend's house. Our hosts, recently married, were showing us a Koran that had been in their family for a hundred years. We got into a freewheeling discussion about religion, language (Muslims are required to read the Koran in Arabic; our friends are Persian and speak Farsi but also learned Arabic; which is comparable to how Jews like myself learn Hebrew for religious purposes; meanwhile, my wife is Catholic and speaks some Arabic as well as some Latin she picked up in church) and I realized after a little while that here we were one Jew, one Catholic and three Muslims sitting together discussing our cultural traditions together with respect and interest and openness to the others' traditions. This is the world I want to live in, and world of free, open, respectful multiculturalism (ick, I hate that word, but in this case it fits the bill). In a world as crowded and filled up as this one is, there's no room for intolerance and closemindedness anymore.”

“Let's talk about guns for a while.”

“Nicely said Explorer. One of the great things about going to school at the largest campus in the nation is the great diversity and some of the great spontaneous conversations that are had regularly.”

“Explorer and Briar, I want to apologize. This is the second week in a row I?ve posted about subjects that are pointless social rhetoric. While I didn?t write my responses to you two out of anger it was argumentative, none the less, and added nothing but my opinion. That?s not who I am any more. The main reason I only post once or twice a week is to avoid getting into these endless debates about things that are pointless (to me at least). I could go on and on (and on and on!) with what I think about the subject but nothing will come of it because we just think differently and are coming from two different POVs. I should just stick to lurkin? for a while ?till a hiking thread pops up. 8)

Nige <}}}}}}}}><”

“Nigal, I took no offense brother and sorry you took the bait but it was go to hear from ya. To bad Mutt was not around you may have enjoyed it more. This forum can be a little addicting. Most of the non-hiking threads are pointless on this site. And nothing will become of them because we will always value personal opinion more than anothers, its only human. MHO is that these Talbans are terrorist in sheeps clothing hidding behind there religion. And I don't like terrrorists no matter what they hide behind.”

“nigal, that IS who you are. you may be wanting to change, but you are not quite there, yet.

kudos to you for trying, though. i'm sure you can do it.”

“I don't think the open exchange of opinions is pointless. Obviously it doesn't have much to do with backpacking, but I have always found these social commentary threads to be like backpacking conversations. I find it interesting. I am amazed that this thread has remained fairly civil (I will give Oldie the benefit of the doubt on calling me blah blah blah..... I'm sure it was just a joke - LOL). Being an agnostic raised by 2 atheists I am forever amazed at how religion effects people's lives so I enjoy reading thoughtful commentary on these topics.”

“Nigal, I hope you read this. I didn't think anybody was trying to be argumentative. I usually avoid the non-hiking threads out of sheer lack of time, but when I do join in one I like to think of it as a campfire discussion, with everyone sharing their thoughts. I wasn't trying to browbeat you with my opinion, just trying to have a conversation and share a few personnel experiences that might bear on the general topic. You say we "are coming from two different POVs" and I am interested in understanding your POV and gaining insight into how the world looks from different vantage points. But I can't do that if you walk away from the fire and crawl back into your tent.”

“I believe that the Taliban's main goal in this tragedy was not the destuction of idols rather to remind world leaders and (secondarily) the public that the Taliban is IN CHARGE of Afghanastan.

The leaders of the Taliban have had an inferiority complex. They don't control the entire country and aren't considered a legitamate government by much of the world. Other than the stories about them giving Asama Ben-Laden refuge the world had not given them much thought since they conslidated power. With this one order to thier people they have placed themselves back on the world stage.

In all the uproar about two statues the world is also forgeting the the Taliban is destroying EVERY statue they can get thier hands on. In the old days Islam forbade any representation of God's creations. No statues of people or animals, no portraits, no landscape painting. Geometric paterns were about the only artistic expression permited. This is said to be one of the reasons they were so much more advanced in math than the europeans.”

“Nigal, if you wait for a hiking thread, we'll never hear from you again!

You know, this may be pointless rhetoric, but I value the insight of other people, and hearing such well-thought out arguments is stimulating to my otherwise bored mind.

That being said, I'd like to figure out Lee's point. I assume because religion destroyed the buddahs that were the original discussion, but it seems to imply, as Ken stated earlier, that "It is the root of most of the evil committed in the world..."

Really.

I submit it is "fear,ignorance and greed disguised as religion" (sandy) with an enormous lust for power, with religion as an excuse.

Did Hitler murder millions for his religion, or because he wanted a master race?

In fact, Mao murdered MORE THAN HITLER in bringing communism to China, and he did it to REMOVE religion.

"Don't tell me that "tolerance" and "human rights" are imperialistic, Western concepts. They are fundamental concepts that underlie the basic principals of every human religion, including Islam." (explorer)

Laws tell us what to do, religion tells us why, and gives us morality.

My only other comment is to explorer, about kneeling in church. You may notice that going down on one knee is only directed to the tabernacle, which according to doctrine houses the body of Christ, and kneeling is not done to the crucifix, but to the host during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, again, according to doctrine, the body of Christ.”

“Tommy, good post. You are right to make a distinction between religion as the root of all evil and fear, greed and ignorance disguised as religion, or I would put it as "religion that has been twisted by fear, greed and ignorance." Religion is not evil, but more evil has been done in the name of religion that for any other reason in human history.

As for kneeling, I've never seen the one-knee deal like you describe, in every Catholic church I've ever been in they go down on two knees, and many Churches have padded kneeling rails attached to the pews because the kneeling is such a regular part of the Mass. You make an interesting point about exactly what is being kneeled to, but the Eucharist, which the doctrine says is literally the body of Christ and not just a representation, seems to fit perfectly with the very definition of an idol, an object that actually contains the spirit of the devine.”

“Upon entering the sanctuary, or approaching the altar, one should bow toward the crucifix if a tabernacle is not present on the altar. If a tabernacle is present, then a genuflect (one-kneed kneel) is in order. This is done either before seating, or before stepping onto the altar.

The tradition of kneeling, sitting, standing, bowing, etc, during the mass is kinda loose knit. Some churches do it slightly differently - depends on the priest, or mebbe the order, or even that particular churches tradition.”

“Briar Rabbit - I'm around. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time right now to F around on the INternet at work.

Hmmmmm....seems you all can have a decent conversation about religion if I stay out of it.”

“To add an addendum to gojo, genuflecting(sp?) should be done at any time the tabernacle is passed. But yes, that is what I meant by going to one knee.

Good point about idolatry, explorer.

However, I still dispute that more evil has been done in the name of religion than any other reason.
The crusades, the Salem witch trials, and the Muslim holy wars were bad, but there's been many many wars of aggression throughout history that were based soley on political power.

Today's violence and evil almost seems devoid of all religion entirely, from street gangs to school shootings to all levels of crime to Desert Storm etc.

And what about the two biggest crimes against humanity in modern history, Hitler and Mao?

Oh, before I forget, although this hardly seems like something civilized people discuss...religion *has* been responsible for sweeping acts of charity and kindness, too. Easy to forget sometimes.”

“"More evil has been done in the name of religion".... You make a good point.... it's a line that sounds good but may not stand up to closer scrutiny.

You mention Hitler and Mao again. Actually, if we're going to talk about the great mass murderers of the 20th century, we have include Stalin in there too. Now, Hitler was heavily tied up in Teutonic myth and ancient German religion. This was the underlying philosophy of the Aryan movement and the drive for German racial and religious purity. So I suppose you could argue that Hitler's crimes were "in the name" of religion. Stalin and Mao, though, were anti-religion in the extremis, though they executed their zeal for communism with what you might call a religious ferver. But I take your point.

On the other hand, of the over 40 active, hot wars going in the world right now, almost all involve "ethnic strife" driven by religious difference. Christian v. Muslim. Shiite v. Sunni. Muslim v. Hindu. And on and on and on...”

“Well thos ba$tards did it...they're gone now...almost!”

“Sorry I was gone for this discussion over the past week. Early on, there was mention of the Three Gorges Dam in China. Indeed, lots of historic and cultural sites are being flooded, including ancient temple sites. On the other hand, I'll differentiate the Chinese from the Taliban in that we saw extensive examples of the Chinese rebuilding, restoring, or replicating temples and significant historic sites wherever we went during our year there. The motives were sometimes tourism oriented, but not always. Some of the temples had been destroyed or damaged during the Red Guard years. There is certainly a great interest in China of conserving evidence of the nation's cultural heritage, again for a variety of motives. Sort of like one American government unit spending money to preserve ancient Native American sites while another has trouble coming up with enough money for contemporary Native American health care or education or housing.

As for the Taliban, it's one thing to say you are doing something in the name of Islam. Let's hear them quote chapter and verse on where the Koran says it's okay to subjugate and mistreat women. Seems the leading Islamic scholars at major Islamic institutions are always pointing out there are no such parts of the Koran. It's just Taliban blather to disguise very old paternalistic tribal power structures. Not unlike other alleged "fundamentalist" movements.”