The Toughest Backpackers

“Last week, I saw a show on the history channel about elite German mountain troops of World War II. They were on skis and snowshoes carrying 120 pound packs in the mountains in sub zero conditions totally on their own to attack Russian positions. They said it was common for the infantry to march 20 miles a day with 90 pound packs. What is amazing about it is the equipment they were using since it was so crude. You can be sure they didn't have Gregory packs, gore-tex suits,capilene underwear and North Face tents and bags. Their tent was digging a hole in the frozen ground to hide in. Pretty amazing stuff what the human body can endure I think.”

“I bet they were some big ole boys though.”

“I know I'll never complain about being wet and cold again after seeing what they can do.”

“They were a bunch of wimps.”

“holy sh!t. Scary. That sounds like hell. Might be fun.”

“Yes, Hitler did not learn from Napoleon, they both tried to invade Russia in a harsh winter which led to devistating defeats.”

“Interesting!

Our paratroopers and rangers were nothing to sneeze at in WWII. Consider Anzio and the Battle of the Bulge...both in winter. Very Nasty. The marines had some pretty impressive marches in the Pacific theater as well.

In the winter it sounds like most fighting soldiers just spend a lot of time wet and cold!”

“Of course those German soldiers were well motivated. "Either you do this or the SS will shoot you."

Great choice, get killed fighting Russians or have your own side shoot you for dis-obeying orders.”

“10th Mountain Division”

“Yeah, they weren't exactly out there enjoying nature. That 90-120 lbs. prolly feels like nothing when there's bullets whizzing by your head.”

“When the bullets start flying the excess weight starts droppin'!

Those German Alpine troopers were some rugged mutha's who were plenty motivated without threats.

The equipment wasn't bad at all.
They had wool and silk and down insulation.
Those boys and the American 10th Mtn Inf were some of the best.

The Germans had six or seven mountain infantry divisions....Europe has.....mountains!
They were instrumental in the taking of Norway.”

“I echo Lee. 10th Mountain Division. New England, Colorado and the Upper Peninsula provided some of their toughest fellas for some of the toughest fighting. Anyone ever hike the hut system named after them in Colorado?”

“Pekka --

The hut system is not simply named after them, the huts/locations were established for their specific training needs.

Have a friend who has done some skiing trekking in and out to a couple of them”

“lee, I hear it's a pretty demanding route, which makes sense from the training element. A way to see if a modern outdoors person measures up -- even with our fru-fru modern gear?”

“Why that ain't nuthin'. Back when I was comin' up we not only backpacked thru the heat with cases uh 'cerveza,' we also schlepped in the refrigerator n' generator.”

“We ain't nothing but a buncha outta shape weekend wannabes. We, as backpackers, don't measure up to the average professional soldier, much less a "cream of the crop" outfit like those elite Krauts. With proper training, we could prolly do it, tho.

The annals of history are chocked FULL story after story about soldiers accomplishing the impossible on a daily basis.

Hell, R.E. Lee often marched his barefoot boys 30 miles a day, for days on end. Grant never ONCE out-flanked him.

I had two great-uncles survive the Bataan Death March, and the subsequent imprisonment.

Napoleon moved 70 miles in 24 hours?
I need to check back into that one...”

“The Norwegians(or Finnish I forget) have a "special forces" unit that does a march called the "Eagle March" or some such name. ALL members from the youngest private to the most senior officer MUST complete this march yearly or be kicked out. Its in the mtns and is made up of mountaineering,skiing,shooting land nav etc....

Prior to WWII in 1938(or 39 again my memory fails me) the Russians invaded Finland and were squarely stomped! The finns had little to NO armor but pinned the Russians in a valley by destroying the lead and the last tanks. Then they just worked over the rest who had no escape route. Home court advantage rules.

War produces some bad@ss soldiers who will do anything to kill their enemy. Look at the "ROK Rangers" of south Korea,French Foreign Legion,Britsih Royal Marines...”

“Not to mention that the Finns built saunas at the front to keep up their spirits. Talk about rubbing it in on the Russkies freezing their buns off across the way.”

“My ex-brother-in-law (and friend from the age of seven when they moved here from Austria) was in the 2nd Gebirgesjaeger Regiment of the 2nd Storm Division. They saw a lot of very hard fighting: France, Crete, Greece, Italy (Monte Casino - my uncle was there on the Allied side in the Canadian infantry), Yugoslavia, Finland, Russia (Leningrad), Czeckoslovakia and finally Austria. Not a pretty story. I live just North of Malone, New York on the Canadian side of the border. Malone boasts a battalion of the famous and revered 10th Mountain Division. It's fun to live near historic places and people - adds a little colour to my many happy hours and days in the Adirondacks. I'm glad I never had to go through it and hope my children won't. Happy trails.”

“I am amazed that so many have mentioned the 10th Mountain Division. Impressive lot we have here! One of these days I plan to study their history more.

Long marches were fairly commonplace in the Civil War also. A lot of those units really moved around. I often wondered how they knew where to go!

My uncle was in some of the longest and bloodiest battles in Europe in WWII. Quite amazing to learn about them after all these years.”

“I believe the U.S. Ski Hall of Fame in Ishpeming (U.P. of Michigan) has a little diorama of a 10th Mountain soldier in his ski mountaineering gear.”

“This isn't about elite outfits or backpacking, but rather the history aspect that several have mentioned. There is a book by Stephen Ambrose called "Citizen Soldiers" that takes place starting at 12:01 am 6/7/44 and goes the end of the war. It's about how our Boy Scout's became a group and beat the Hitler Youth. Another book to recommend by the same auther that does have to do with bpacking is "Undaunted Courage". It's about the Lewis and Clarke expedition. Very good reads.”

“An interesting little book to learn about special unit training is called "Pegasus Bridge" with a subtitle something like D-Day, 6th of June. It recounts the formation and training of the small British glider unit that captured a key bridge behind the lines at Normandy and held it until relieved. They get a scene in "The Longest Day." The amount of work these soldiers put in even before they knew their mission is enlightening for us couch potatoes.”

“My dad was a gun captain on an LCS(L) during the invasion of Okinawa and performing subsequent picket patrol.

The LCS was ton for ton the most heavily armed boat in the war. They provided close-in support during beach landings - strafing with cannon and rocket fire.

His gun (twin 48mm) splashed 13 kamakazies.
Quite a great bunch of guys - those WWII heroes.

Here's a pic of my dad's boat - LCS(L) 75
The Fighting Six-Bits”

“The soldiers who fought in the Frozen Chosin were tough bunch. An interesting phenomenon occurred during the Korean War that is no surprise to me. The UN forces were made up of mostly of American Army and Marine Corps troops. During operations it became apparent that Army convoys were being attacked on every movement. The Marines would advance forward and encounter minimal resistance. During a prisoner interrogation a Chinese officer revealed that the leggings of the Army was white and the leggings of the Marines were yellow. The Chinese did not want any part of the Marine Corps. I don't blame them.

I know the Army Rangers consider themselves to be the toughest of the tough, but recent conflicts have shown that Rangers are ineffective and actually compromise security. The disaster in Somalia and the high casualty rate in Panama were probably the deciding factors in assigning the Rangers to a support role in the Gulf War.”

“Hi, I?m Johnny Knoxville and when these guys can shoot and fight while careening down the slopes in a trash recycling bin wearing nothing but a football helmet and a cup I shall remain the toughest SOB around these parts! HOOAW!”

“JUST LET IT GO HYPER!”

“Gojo, my dad was there at Okinawa too. He was on the destroyer USS Lewis Hancock, did radar picket duty against the kamikazis. I cannot imagine that kind of stress.”

“My old man played poker in the Phillipines for six weeks until the end of the war.
That was HIS overseas deployment....no hero, but "way to go pops!"
He was one of the "big kids" at 26 and a pretty good card player.
He was perfectly willing to relieve the young boys of their dough in a card game.
He subsequently bought saving bonds with his winnings and sent them home to Mom.
They were able to eventually buy a modest house in 1950.

When I was in the Natl Guard Mtn Inf Battalion in Vermont we got to know a few of the old dudes from "The Tenth".
One of the old guys was a German living in Mass. who said he owed his life to the "Tenth".
When the 10th moved on Italy he was pulled from the Eastern Front to train mountaineers for the German effort.
He had the privilege of surrendering to the US forces.....a far better fate than surrendering to the Russians.”

“In Colorado I'm always reminded of the miners who endured tremendous hardships, saw a few good times, usually died poor. The people who tamed the frontier get my vote for toughest backpackers. Usually it was a choice between suffering in the wild, wild west or just suffering someplace else in a plague-ridden city or tiny farm.”

“One night at Philmont we were sharing a camp with another troop and got some of those campfire talks going. A leader with the other troop had been a medic for D-Day. The day before the assault, he said an officer came striding through the medical unit he was with and annointed a number of "volunteers" to be reassigned to another unit -- the paratroopers. He was dropped among the hedgerows with the 101st Airborne, with NO parachute training. He said it was so confusing on the ground he just started tending to whoever he came across. Lucky for him, he was working on a wounded German soldier when a squad of Germans came across him. When he finished patching up the soldier, the other Germans picked their comrade up and went on their way. It was a major sigh of relief on his part. Imagine: this is your chute, that is the door, out you go, sucker. Say hi to the Krauts when you get there. Man, have I had it easy.”

“pekka, incredible story!
Whew, is right!”

“Wow bacpac, you sure got a hard-on against Rangers lately. You almost dragged me in to another pissin contest...almost.”

“hyper, I got no bone or boner to pick with you. I think I got the facts straight. I was reading the reports that the Army submitted to Congress. I wasn't there, but I read the newspapers and followed up on a few links.

I think there is definitely a role for Special Forces, but poor choices have been made on how and when to deploy them.”

“The NAVY SEALS rule!”

“Good Grief. The Rambo mentality is what has paralized Special Forces. Snoop and Poop & Sabotage is what Special Forces are good at.

Offensive combat is best left to the grunts.”

“The Rangers in Solmolia didn't go there by choice. Bush Sr. sent the Army in the feed the starving Africans. It was that idiot president Clinton and his even more idiotic Defense Secretary Les Aspin that had the Rangers chasing Ided around.
One more thing to thank Bill for.”

“Each time you make an accomplishment on the trail and start thinking you are a bad azz, just come in here and spend some time reading this thread. Guaranteed to deflate any growing ego. It's good for you.”

“Sometimes they need to marinate for a while.

Like squirrel.”

“mmmmm squirel is tastey.”

“Better not tell Kleetn.

Or maybe you should.”

“is it still called mountain oysters when they come from squirrels?”

“Depends on the squirrel.”

“I carry 120lbs in the Alps with no pack and bare feet.

Im the baddest mother#&%!$er that ever lived and My name is Stagger Lee.”

“Tilt, any particular marinate you use?

Will we need to add "tenderizer" or do you just use a bat to tenderize them? (LOL)”

“Interesting notes on mountain troops but perhaps too focussed on the West.
The border dispute between India and Pakistan has soldiers fighting at over 18,000 ft in the Kashmir Himalaya since 1948.

Permanent military bases are at 14,000ft sort of like the top of the rockies.

Try carrying military gear up there and getting shot at !!”

“I met the toughest backpacker in the mid 1980s in the Stuart Range of Washington. I was resting on top of Asgaard Pass, getting ready to head down the about 2000 foot mountaineering route down the pass to Colchuck Lake below. My buddies knee was bothering, and we caught our breath and had a snack.

Then we saw a party approaching the pass, also to go down the rough trail in the talus and scree. One was a small Vietnamese woman who was scooting along on her hands and butt. Her legs were paralyzed and useless sticks. She would throw her legs forward, scoot her butt forward, which made her knees buckle, and do it again. She had padded gloves on, and was wearing a pad under her butt. She didn't have to be up there, 12 miles from any trail head. She was up there because she chose to be. She was the toughest backpacker I have ever met.”

“did she have a backpack on?”

“And how about them thar Nepalese mother#&%!$ers? Toughest badasses out there.”