Mel returns/ llama update - 3-24

“Mel returns from naked desert birthday vacation.

My Fellow Hikers..

There are those of you who are debating taking a previously undiscussed X-C trail from our last communal campsite at Crabtree Lakes. This, to shorten the distance to get back down to Whitney Portal.

Please to consider that there may be a (un-named)few people on the permits you now hold, who do not want to go this way.

They will not have a permit to get them off the mountain should you all go off on a toot.

This is something you will have to decide amongst yourselves.

Some take comfort by the road not taken.

The only way to keep anyone minus a permit out of trouble is to meet them at Trail Camp on the day you were originally supposed to arrive there.

You will most assuredly see a ranger on the trail below Trail Camp.
If you don't have a permit, your ass is in the grass.”

“BTW....

I believe we all now have the permits we applied for?
Si?”

“What is the Park Ranger gonna do Mel? Throw those unnamed rascals out of the park?

Now tell me, did you get some nude pix of the twins down there in the desert? Inquiring rascals want to know.”

“I think it would be cool to have a group going to Discovery Pass and a group going to Crabtree Pass at the same time. I like the photographic possibilities.

The 7-day permit issue doesn't involve me, but I would propose the following. The group taking the standard route would I assume spend a night at Guitar Lake while the splinter group could spend an extra night at big Crabtree Lake with the rest of us. The Guitar Lake band would take the permit, since Phil's splinter group would be unlikely to encounter a ranger while they're off trail, and then the 2 groups will reunite at Trail Crest, possibly summit together, but if not at least meet in Trail Camp that night, and be covered by the one permit. Make sense?”

“As I said on the other thread, I am not excited about splintering the group. I am just trying to assess this Discovery Pass thing. It might be something everyong would be OK with.

I still don't know when we would be getting to Crabtree lakes? Third or fourth day? I hope we get a layover day at Crabtree. Mel, what's the latest plan on arriving there?”

“That last post was from me. What happened to my name?

Phil”

“Mel, I managed a day at Deep Creek HS 3/18.A few of us naked people but not a real party. I'm watching all these alternate route reports and just lurking for now.No opinion but a head full of maps and plans.”

“jvz - Glad you're lurking about on this.

Speaking of hot springs. There are a few hot spring sites around. I looked at one somewhere but didn't find a reference to the one we are thinking of.”

“Anyone holding a permit is cool.
Any splinter faction without a permit is not cool.
A ranger can be encountered in the following areas:

ANYWHERE on the trail between the Crabtree Lakes Junction, and Guitar Lake.
ANYWHERE east of the 101 switchbacks on the east side of Whitney.
Any section of the main trail between Cottonwood Pass and Crabtree Lakes Junction (JMT/PCT).
There are bears.
If you do not have a permit, I understand you will have to pay a fine, and the ranger will growl and ask you to leave - PRONTO.
I will not be responsible for anyone caught without a permit.
You goes off on your own, you is on your own.”

“I have a permit and Phil has a permit. That's 2 permits for 2? possible? groups heading out over Whitney. We're still only talking here. Mel has a permit for the group going with the llamas, but no permit for the Miter Basin group. The Miter group would be the least likely to see a ranger. Am I counting correctly? How would a ranger react to a photocopy of a permit? That and a good story.”

“Nav, I have the permit for the Crabtree Pass/Miter Basin group. So when the 10 day group splinters, each group will have a permit. Are you saying there are 2 permits for the 7-day group also?

mel, if there's 2 permits, problem solved. If not, my suggestion was that the group going to Guitar Lake would have the permit, so in most of the places you list they would have no problem. The next day, if the Discovery Pass group meets a ranger at Trail Crest they say "our leader got ahead of us this morning, he's ahead on the summit with our permit" or if the ranger is on the summit they say the leader already headed down to Trail Camp and you're meeting him there. All of which would be true statements, right? So no problem?”

“But if the Rangers lurk here all plans will be spoiled.”

“Correct me if I'm worng, but is this getting the least little bit too complicated?

We started off with two groups, then we had three, then there were four possibly taking a XC route, with a couple of folks who were not too anxious to do that section, so that makes five groups.
We also have a Solitary Hiker who wants to hang by himself, so that makes six groups.
Folks, when I ordered up the permits and planned this trip, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible for a group of 20 human beings and four or five llamas.

The group dynamics will be negatively affected by this much turning on, tuning in, and dropping out - of sight - on your own little journeys of discovery.

I suggested a little creative story telling for the benefit of any rangers that we may come across during our travels, but if we are forced to have so many different stories, this is going to get too weird.

What I would like to know is,

WHO DA FOOK is going to remain with me that is on MY permit?

This is turning into a madhouse.
If you all are so anxious to experiment, can't you do it on your own time and not on the time I planned several months ago?

Next year I can suggest places you all can hike to, and you can obtain your own permits without my intervention.

If you disagree, I'd appreciate your e-mail to me at home.

Meany”

“Mel - NO CHANGES ON MY PART. I'm stickin' with you, kid. It does seems as if the thread has followed a rather odd diversion from it's original path, and your perception is accurate... I'd like to suggest that those who have made the commitment to do either of the ORIGINAL HIKES - 7 or 10 day - STICK to the plan. It's enough work, I'm sure, for Mel to have organized this little adventure and keep it under control. Diversions from the plan equal chaos, aside from other problematic concerns, almost all of which have ALREADY been outlined here.”

“There are really not that many plans to contend with. Even if I did the Miter Basin alone there would still be at least 19 people hanging together for at least the first four "on the trail" nights. This assumes that all parties move from the hot springs to the middle Crabtree Lake on that fourth day. That's a camp with a minimum of fifteen tents all within 400 yards of each other. Plenty of group comeraderie.

After that fourth night the seven day group was going to leave anyway. How many seven day folks are there, eight or ten at most? If some of those folks decided to do the Discovery Pass route, they (not the Guitar Lake folks) would have to deal with the Park Ranger should they run into one. The Guitar Lake people would have the original permit. And they would have several cars at Whitney Portal. No one should be held up if the Dicovery Pass party was late.

Of the people going over Crabtree Pass how many are there? Four or Five max? This would leave 4 or 5 people hiking back along the trail with Mel. Hell that's more than we had the last couple of days on last year's trip.

And within 3 days all of the 10 day group (including me) would all be back together at the rendevous location. We'd spend several more days in communal bliss.

Another thing, if I do go to Miter Basin I'll have a separate permit.
And I have a search party coming over Crabtree Pass if I get lost. they will have two days to find me before Mel get's to the rendevous site.

Piece of cake.”

“So far as I understand, there has been discussion among the 7 dayers weather to take the Whitney/Discovery Pass route verse the Guitar Lk. trail. I haven't heard of 2 groups going out over Whitney. Am I missing something?”

“Nav...there are two different routes up to Whitney. One is the typical ascent via Guitar Lake and the 101 switchbacks. The other is a route from the bottom of the uppermost lake in the Crabtree Basin to Discovery Pass and along Trail Crest.”

“Having a second group doing the Discovery route is an idea being passed around for comment.”

“Tell you what..

We have four permit holders:

ME
Explorer
Naviguesser
Phil

There are six people in my group...

Explorer has seven people in his group...

Naviguesser has three people in his group.

Phil has four people in his group.

Anybody in the 10 day group who want to do Crabtree Pass, get in Explorers' group, and resign from mine.

Anybody who wants to travel with me, get in my group.

Anybody in the seven day group who wants to do the Discovery X-C route, go with Phil.

Same goes for Naviguesser. He seems to want to do the Discovery Route.

Now, is there anyone in the seven day group who DOES NOT WANT TO DO THE DISCOVERY ROUTE?

If there is, somebody needs to give a permit to them, or travel with them.

Now, what you have to figure out is, how many of you will swap places in each group so the numbers on the permits will match?

You all can coordinate your stories on the trail.”

“This ECT hiker is scratching his haid and thinking how much simpler ECT trips are. Guess us redneck southerners can't do the complicated stuff you West Coast slickers do.”

“Steve.....
I is shaking and scratching my head with ya'.
I'm 'bout ready to do an EC trip next year, instead.”

“lol steve hiker...............permits to hike and pooping rules....new concepts to me, but hey, i aint to old to learn.
i signed up for a llama hike in cowboy country and ahm a goin'........helter skelter, come what may!”

“Om?

Next year?
I'm going to Disney World!!!”

“Mel you said that next year I could go with ya, but I aready done did FL once to many times. So maybe please, the Humphries.”

“I never said I was going cross-country over Discovery Pass.

I did create a thread to discuss the possibility, but not as a way to split up the 7-day group. I re-read all my posts on the discussion thread, and the strongest language I used was that it was "tempting." All my efforts were directed at getting good enough information so that we could analyze the possibilities.

My highest priority is that 7-day group sticks together. My secondary goal was to take the easiest route to Whitney and see about creating a layover day!!!! (Mel, you sent me home over a cross-country pass last year and it worked. Remember?)

The time to change the groups and basic plan was before we sent off for the permits. If we don't stick with the plan, there will not be a Llama 2002. The only issue I raised was a shortcut.

So far, I have found no evidence that an "ascent-worthy" Class 1 or 1-2 route exists from Crabtree to Discovery Pass. There were one or two references to a "descent- worthy" Class 2 route. Hiking around to Guitar Lake is still the most likely route as far as I can tell.

I hope that helps!”

“mel...ifn ya come to florida in July , you do not want to go to Disney!......heh.....Wet and Wild is better.”

“Phil: this is an area colleagues page I know of. Go to the hot springs page. Way too heavy for me but may be right up your alley.I corresponded with Mr. Karl about another spring up north here and surprised him but we were successful in finding it. Try http://nsm1.fullerton.edu/~skarl/EM/Steve_Karl/Steve.html”

“jvz - Thanks. I looked over his site, but didn't see any reference to the springs we are looking for yet.

I live less than 2 miles from the university he teaches at. I have heard his name before somewhere.”

“Sorry about all this, but it has seemed that since I put the ball in play, everybody wanted to get into the act, take the ball, and run with it.

Phil, I apoligize if I assumed you had a wild hair to go off on your own. I didn't realize I shoulda' slapped Rick instead.
Rick.
You go sit in your corner.

The only reason we ended up with three groups is that it looks like I can not do Crabtree Pass.
I do NOT want to have to go back the way I came in, but it seems like thems the breaks.

I admit the idea of wandering around to the south of Whitney is tempting, but I also believe that any group fragmenting should be done next year. Areas of interest should be tossed around, decided on, and then done.
We don't get the permits, then change llamas in the middle of the stream.

I had particular reasons for assigning the permits to certain individuals.

They have experience/ and or are familiar with the area. They also can be expected to have prevaricating finesse when meeting a ranger in his home territory.

The people I was most concerned about, have totally legal permits.
Anyone with either Phil or Explorer can take off anywhere they want, as long as they stay with the guy with the permit.
The only ones who don't have totally legal permits are me, and Rick, and Rick has enough experience that we can concoct a good story, should we need one.
After all, we are coming in on the same trail (Kearsarge), at the same time, and we met on the trail and decided all of us should travel together all the way down to Cottonwood.

Capice?”

“Melsie...

Way too complicated....I felt bad enough leavin ya for Miter Basin...a side trip way too tasty to pass up since it's already part of the plan. I would like a heapin helpin of fun with a huge side of adventure, and for desert...a big fat creamy scoop of unknown.
Yes sir Mr. Ranger.... I'm with the pretty lady with the long blonde braid and the Llamas. I don't know where I am, where I came from, or where I'm going, but I'm having a wonderful time. I don't know, what I don't know and I DON'T CARE....~~~~~~~%^P”

“I have sent everyone concerned a letter.
Perhaps we can all come to an understanding and tread the straight and narrow.
You go my way, I'll go mine, and none of us will meet any bears along the way.

I never claimed I was easy to get along with now, did I?”

“Can I still talk if I'm sitting in the corner?
Talk, talk, talk! That's all I hear!
I think it's fun, and it makes me want to go NOW!”

“hey mel, ....my map does not show the cowboy and outlaw camp.....did you leave that out? heck witht the bears!
(jest kidding)”

“Thanks to all of you for your kind e-mail replies.
I'd send another blanket E to you all, but I'm so behind in my E-mail, I may never get around to it.
Just to make sure you all know, I know, you care.

Now, lets' quit the weirdness and get back to planning this damned trip.

Mommy”

“Works for me.”

“I got the campfire goin, I got my tequlia, now who wants to do some serious talkin? 8^)”

“i got me a vest and ahm headin west....
head em up and move em out.....rawhide!!!

yipee and yahoo
:)”

“It's going to be a great trip!”

“I'm feeling too dreadfully sick to keep up with tt lately, but I feel compelled to say something about mel's plans for her llama trip.

The purpose for a group trip is to stay together mostly. It's to hike together, eat together, share stories amongst ourselves, and to get to know each other better.

Even though I am not involved in this trip, I can see mel has spent a lot of time figuring things out, sending out maps and coordinating permits, llamas and hikers.

After all has been said and done, I can't believe people are still talking about variations to the trip. I think everyone should stick to mel's plans basically. That's what a group trip is. Mel's hair is going to change from blonde to pure white by the time everyone puts in their two cents.”

“Randy!
Oh, the Humphries!
Jeeze, I almost missed that. Sure! We can go there. That's a piece of cake.
Humphries Basin - Yes?

Oh, LH....
You're a welcome breath of fresh air.
Thank you.

For the rest of you traveling up here to participate in this wild west affair, I'd like for you to know that so far, I have eight people who want to go back with me.
Neener, neener, neener!
I think I mayhap to get another permit to COA.
Not to worry, that part is easy. I do that the day before we leave.

Gunga-dingy”

“LH...
You are sick?
Get better!
Take care of yourself!”

“I didn't say how I wanted to get there. Say, by way of the Key Hole and Darwin Basin.”

“Oh, now see how you are.
This is a trick, right?
The Keyhole?
Can't I get there over ...
what the hell is that thing...
Darwin Bench....?
La Mark Col...?
My brain is fading tonight....
Too many projects...
Too few brain cells left.”

“You are just water logged. It will all come come back to you slowly.”

“Just thought I'd run this back up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes.”

“Are we on for Dutch oven extravaganza at Mel's the night of the 29th? I have two and Mel has one. I have a menu in mind which includes some awesome cobblers.

Mel, is your Dutch oven like mine?”

“Oh, yippie!

You BET we are on.
This is all the more bait to get all these little campers to show up on time.
If you haven't eaten Phils' cooking, you haven't lived!

I think my DO is like yours.
It's the bigger version....
About six inches deep?”

“Mel - Great! That deep one will really help.

Up to 12-13 people: 2 main dishes and one-deep cobbler.

More than 13 people: 3 main dishes and 2 cobblers. (Cobblers prepared after main dishes).

One cobbler will always be a peach cobbler. If we have a second one, then it will be cherry chocolate. (No splinter groups, please!)”

“6" deep......teet bagging? I don't know.”

“IF we have a second one?!
Cherry Chocolate?!
I'm looking forward as much to the dessert as to the trip!

Now, sirpete...
We can't have teets, and chocolate cobbler.
Sounds too much like that book from the late 60's, "The Joy of Sex".
They did a lot of things with whipped cream and grapes.
Makes me break out into a rash just thinking about it.”