China Is Our Enemy

“Whether it was international waters or not is irrelevant. The U.S. is guilty of a double standard.

In 1956 President Eisenhower issued an executive order authorizing the military to shoot down or sink any foreign eavesdropping airplane or ship within 20 miles of the U.S. coastline. That would still be international waters. This policy was expanded in 1972 when the Navy sunk a Soviet intelligence gathering fishing trawler that wandered too close to fleet naval exercises in the mid Atlantic. the U.S. recovery of the sunken Soviet sub in the Pacific by the CIA was clearly a violation of international maritime law -- the U.S even admitted that.

A common tactic used by both sides during the Cold War was to 'stray' close to the other side and electronically monitor the response. I cannot say whether our plane did this last week,but it certainly is possible and likely.

Spying is a dirty but necessary business. Let's cut the holier-than-thou crap and just chalk it up to a cold war incident that heated up.”

“Liam, were you ever in NE Iowa?”

“I've driven through NE IA before, but I haven't lived there. Why do you ask?”

“The international waters issue is not central here, but I've double checked my assumtpions and here is the story:

A nation has its "territorial waters" these are often 12 miles out into the sea from the coast.

A 200 mile economic interest zone is often claimed and generally respected.

A nations air space is generally agreed to include the air above the territorial waters (i.e. the 12 miles or so byond the coast).

Thus, outside those first twelve miles of ocean, the air above the the 200 mile economic zone is generally considered to be international air space.

I'm not trying to make an argument for either side. Precedent has shown that both sides will lie in cases like this. I'm not even sure if I believe the things that both sides seem to agree on.”

“Your right, international waters means jack. The thing is that the Chineese plane colided with the spy plane. It did not shoot it down. A colision is not a deliberate attempt to down the plane. Since it was an accident, then the fault goes to the party that caused the accident. That would be the Chineese pilot for coliding with the spy plane. Also, when a US plane is damaged like that, the plane becomes Us territory and cannot be boarded. If it is, that is considered a breech of our boarders and an act of war.

The fact is that this accident is not our fault. We had the right to be there. If they had shot us down, that would be a whole different ball game, but they didn't.”

“The WSJ had a little aside regarding the pilot. Apparently he was a real "hot dogger" who would fly close enough to hold up a sign with his email on it.

Two conclusions: 1. This is all "routine" for the fly boys (remember Tom Cruise taking polaroids of the cockpit of the MIG in Top Gun (not that hollywod is reality, but flashing your emial address is pretty close), and 2. Just like the bumper sticker says "If he was flying so close that they could read his email address, then he was flying too close"”

“This thread has it all! Except for backpacking. It's got name calling, cussing, trolls, typos, bad grammer, racial slants and slurs. I just re-read it from the top. What a hoot. "Bug hairy tunacrotch." LMAO (still)”

“Years ago, a friend and neighbor of mine from Junior High and High School went backpacking in the Himilayas. He hiked into Tibet (with permits) and soon took some pictures of the "People's Army" beating the heck out of Tibetan Monks who were peacefully protesting. His camera was taken away and he was jailed by the Chinese until various people intervened for him and he "apologized."
When he returned he became very involved in the birth of a new "Free Tibet" movement. (This was in the mid 70's).

Not only is this true, but now we have backpacking in he thread, along with some new typos.”

“Well, if liamoconnor were your real name, which I don't suppose it is........... well, I worked at a paper in NE Iowa and had done some coverage of the Ulster Project that takes place in our community. liamoconnor just seems like a real familiar name (even if not real)

Or is it the name of some IRA leader that I'm not quite putting a handle on??! hehehee”

“I think we should tell China to give back our people and plane or else..............we bomb their 36 Billion dollar 3 River Gorge dam. :)”

“No, lets shoot Iraq with a Chinese missile launched from China so that they blame China on it. They those two contries will go to war and we can just sit back and watch.”

“What, if anything, is the international community saying about the standoff? I haven't heard anything in the media.”

“Western European leaders generally side with US on the specific issue... much opinion thinks Bush asked for something like this, has goaded China and Russia, and is pissed for that and what they see as Bush's most extreme version of American arrogance and unilateralism.”

“I'm kind of surprised that the U.N. or member nations haven't issued any kind of statement. I guess things are still kind of ambiguous.”

“Trouble is, we can't prove one way or another who caused the crash, but common sense tells us that a F8 fighter unable to avoid a lumbering prop plane the size of a 737 makes about as much sense as a guy in a Porsche getting run off the road by the Amish.”

“lizs, maybe you're confusing him with Liam Neilson, lol.”

“No offence to the Amish.

What am I saying? They're not reading this!”

“Tommy, LOL”

“I go by Old Order Amish every day I go to work. Kinda neat to see.... although I sure woudn't want the lifestyle!!!

There.......thread degeneration..... from China to AMISH!”

“Why not progression liz?”

“They're coming home. We are "very sorry".”

“The crew members that is, not the Amish.”

“In just a couple of years the U.S. military will be able to buy EP-3 clones from China real cheap.”

“Gordon --

Will they makes those EP-3s in colors to match the beige berets??”

“lol lee.

in response to pedxing, you can't view the world as a bunch of countries that want to get along. Rather it is like a wolf pack. THe United states is the alpha male and other countries want that position. If we were to level the playing field, another country would just fill in where we left off. If we continue passiveism we quickly become the omega wolf. There is no such thing as world peace. There will always be at least one person with differing views that want's to change, and if you think about it without those kinds of people we would still be living in the dark ages. Could you imagine a world that was peacefull in the 1700's? We would be speaking with British accents and paying singing God bless the queen.”

“I have heard rumors that many people are avoiding Chinese restaurants as a form of expressing their displeasure. I can say that I ate lunch in one today, and it was much less crowded than usual.

This seems kind of silly to me. I doubt very many people who own and work in Chinese restaurants simpathize with the government of the PRC or its military. Why penalize them?

I hope this rumor is not true.”

“"god bless the queen"???
Did the old wretch sneeze?

Tell those nasty little creeps to go ahead and keep those Sqiud-heads and see how fast they send 'em back.

I can only hope that this stupid "incedent" gives Bush gargantuan hemorhoids?”

“Mr. Death, I can't find which post of mine you are responding too.

When I posted "why not progression liz" I was responding to the post immediately above, and jokingly suggesting that moving from the Chinese to the Amish might be thread progression, not thread degeneration.

Other than that, I was simply addressing questions or clarifying points of information.”

“Actually Mr. Death... here is an opinion. If the nature of the game is as you describe it, then it looks like the Chinese performed brilliantly. Of course, it would now be up the the US to come up with some good counter moves and make sure China regrets it. As long is this is a game of chicken, the Chinese will win.

Not that I agree with the Chinese, I'd love to see the regime there crumble and fall. I'd love to see Tibet free. I'd love to see some of the butchers of Tianeman square go on trial for their crimes.

The Chinese leadership is as corrupt and brutal as just about any regime in the world (look how they treated the Falun Gong). But they also happen to be smarter than most.”

“Yes but once we progressed to and reach to pinical of spiritual Amish creaminess we wouldn't be able to talk about it anymore because we wouldn't be able to use the computer anymore. Thus the thread would just begin falling apart again. LOL!

I could dig the Amish lifestyle without the religious views. Heck, I sit in traffic looking at a horse's a@@ in front of me anyhow. It might as well be an actual horse!”

“Was that you behind me, Nigal?”

“ped,
If the accident was purposefull, yes the Chinese did play well, but we have to play better. We have to steal the prize back from them. If we don't, the game ends and we lose.”

“Most likely, much of the high-tech stuff was jetisoned or destroyed.”

“So now that they're back, let's put our money where our mouth is and not buy the "made in china" crap. Could be tough, it's all made in China.”

“It was funny seeing G W Bush actually stay up past his bedtime and do some work like a real president.”

“All of the interior stuff would have been destroyed, so they won't get any of our actual survelence data or useable pieces of computing equipment, but the external equipment used to do the spying would still be intact, so that could still be taken. I'm starting to wonder if the plane was supposed to crash. We don't seem to be making great strides to get it back. Maybe it's a red hering as to our abilities.”

“Yeah, maybe. And maybe it never happened at all. Maybe its just a ploy by the "Miliitary/Industrial Complex" to get taxpayers to commit to spending the budget surplus on new/better toys.
Remember who shot J.R??? You can't believe anything anymore.”

“Somebody shot Ken Griffey JR?”

“Somebody shot Joey Ramone???”

“Thank you you round eyed devils!
This technology is great!!!
We can now monitor Trail Talk along with your cell phones, wireless devices and baby monitors.
Watch what you say - we are over 1.3 billion strong.”

“Hey, ain't you got a rilly dumb sister....Sum Ting Wong?”

“What you say?!”

“Great.

All our base are belong to them.



Nuts.”

“we have no chance to survive make our time.”

“Janet Reno?”

“I opened a fortune cookie last night and it said, "You velly velly solly!"”

“Dear Mr. Ming Chow Fat,

My city is in desperate need of an animal control officer. The position offers full benefits, $5.75/hr and all you can eat. Please send recipes, oops, I mean resume ASAP.”

“bacpac, LSHISOTS.”

“the parades, speeches, all the festivities, etc.

I spent longer than that in a foreign jail and no one celebrated my release!!”

“Hiw-biwee Wednecks!”