New Hampshire's White mountains in Septe mber

“Ok let's see who will bite. Walkindude and I are looking at getting a TT trip going for the first week in September. He is talking about flying up on Friday night (31st Aug). I have a good friend Jerry who is in for at least 3-4 days. We are open to any ideas about what the itinerary will consist of, some of the ideas are to traverse the Presidential range on the AT or if time doesn't allow for everyone we can do something different. It really depends on how many want to go as to what we will do. Right now I just want to see if there is any interest out there. Lee what about you? I know you live up there and how about you Kleetn? Can you come down from the vacation state? this is by no means an easy place to hike folks so keep in mind there are some real gut busters up there.”

“Oh man, you are risking JoeMama/Wild Child/W?ild Child/Wild Chillin'/nutsac/SupremeGodhead/etc/etc/Tarp coming with by that invite! Think how much space all those personalities will take up!!!!! OHMYGAWD!!”

“Hell yeah. If Tarp Rat want's to come too, that's fine. Bring all the other TT names you got too.”

“Man, no takers yet?!?! Yall need to get out more.”

“Give some particulars, I live about an hour and a half from New Hampshire, and my girlfriend is getting into it also. We'd be siked for it, but my buddy also has reservations at Baxter.

You need a taker? I'll give you 2 takers. Let's try to get it together.

Happy trails”

“We're looking at 4 to 7 days on the trail through that area. I've never been there but I'm all for it. Any suggestions? We're just looking to have a good TT trip to the area and lay down some miles.”

“I hear the presidentials are pretty nice. Haven't really hiked a whole lot over there. I think we need to hear from Pedxing.

Pedxing????”

“Thats what I'm thinking, hit some of the high peaks in the presidentials. September is a really good time for weather in the area.”

“That is almost as close to me as the Gizzard. To far away (calendar wise) to commit though. I love the mountains in Vermont and New Hampshire. I think I may be off of work 6PM Thursday until 6PM Monday the weekend mentioned in the first post.”

“come on then, we'd love to have you. Are plans are open. We could do some base camping with peak bagging or a point to point hiking.”

“ooooooh, the Whites!!

I'm in!! Absolutely, positively, most likely, probably, hopefully...oh, who'm I kiddin'?! I have no friggin' idear wheres I'm gonna be by then, but the want is there! Ain't that half the battle anyway? ;o)

How about doing Franconia Notch? The hut up there is nice and has a great swimming hole in the valley below!”

“Sounds Great to me!!

Labor day weekend can be pretty crowded in the presidentials. I was in the presidentials a few years ago during that w/e and the crowds thinned by Sunday afternoon. Maybe it was mostly day hikers on Sunday and Monday.


My September schedule will stay unsettled for a while, but this looks like a good time for me to get in some backpacking. Since you're coming up into my stomping grounds I'd hate to miss the chance to meet you and join up with you.

The AMC huts are very expensive and may require reservations even for the weekdays (especially if there are very many of us).

With 4 to 7 days it should be possible to pick out a route that goes through the presidentials. The AT is a great route and it has its magic and charm, but there are other somewhat less traveled routes.
There are areas in the presidential range that prohibit camping... so some degree of planning will help. Two people can stealth camp in an emergency, but the damge to the environment, the chance of getting caught, and the chance of people being exposed to severe weather increases with the number of people.

If we do the presidentials, it will be important to have foul weather gear and enough layers of stuff to be able to handle wintery weather.

Another area to consider would be right of I-93 where Lafayette, Liberty and some other fine mountains are. The AT runs right through these peaks.

The AMC White Mountain Guide and guide to the presidentials are good resources to look at to consider what you want to do.

I'm definitely willing to help with practical arrangements when the time comes.”

“If you are doing a Presidential Traverse and plan on staying in the huts, you WILL need to make reservations. Although it is possible to do the entire traverse in one day, most people break it up by staying at Lakes of the clouds for one night. The White Mountains is where my wife and I do most of our hiking and we are doing an overnighter in early June and staying at Galehead hut (Franconia ridge) for one night. I'm taking that week off and doing a number of day hikes and one more overnighter in the Pemigewasset wilderness. If anyone wants to join me they are more than welcome. Also, you might want to check out the following site.

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/whites/”

“The want is here too. It's pretty difficult to leave the kid for a week though. That's a long time. Maybe Hyper can go w/o me or vise-versa.”

“Great choice, I wish I could go. I did Crawford Notch to Kinsman Notch in September of 1999. Fantastic hiking, great weather until Hurricane Floyd moved in. 6 to 8 miles a day was about it for me. It's all up and down. My advice is stay in the backcountry campgrounds, as the huts are horribly expensive and the food is not quite as good as your high school cafeteria. My favorite place was the summit of Mt. Layfayette, the views from up there are fantastic. If you can work it out to go, do so.”

“I will be in the Whites in September. The second weekend. Have reservations at (coincidently) the Galehead hut. It is an anniversary trip with my wife.

If you are planning to use the huts make reservations ASAP.

They fill fast and the Sept dates are popular because it can be so beautiful.

Two thoughts re: tenting.

Tenting in the Presidentials is tough because you have to come down off the ridges a fair distance. There are tent platforms at either end (under Madison and the Neuman shelters at the Mizpah Hut). There is also a shelter/tent platforms under Adams run by the Randolph Mtn Club called "the Perch and/or Gray knob" I have no first hand experience with either of these sites. You can also stay under Washington right at Tuckermans Ravine by getting a spot at the Hermit Lake shelters/platforms. Gotta understand, coming off the ridge, down into the bowl and then facing a hike back up in the morning is not fun. Some of the most rugged hiking in the Northeast under full pack. I have done it, more than once, with campers and they weren't enjoying htemselves.

I did a full Presidential traverse this summer staying at Madison Hut the first night and Lakes of the Clouds the second. In September I was up with my wife and we did Mt. Washington and Monroe, staying at Lakes and HIking up through Tuck's.

Second thought. There may be easier platform/tent access off the presidential range eg. the Franconia ridge. Layfeyette, Lincoln Little Haystack and Flume for instance. There are platforms under Lincoln or Haystack that I have used.

I will lend what I can to your discussion, but my anniversary hike with my wife precludes me from joining in the festivities.”

“Most of the huts, including the ones nearest Franconia Notch are 66 dollars a night for a bunk with dinner and breakfast for a non-AMC member.

One big surprise for backpackers from other areas is that there is a six dollar fee for many of the backcountry camp sites. Reading thru-hikers journals you get to read people bitch and bitch about it. Often they waive the fee in return for a little work.

If you take a week and make good time, you'd be able to go from Franconia notch, take the AT and get well into the preseidentials, past Mt. Washington if you made good time. If you made great time you could do it in less time. This route would take you over most of the heart of the Whites... Lafayette, Liberty, the Flume... up past Mount Washington.

The dartmouth site (posted by Mad River), above, is good for info, as is the AMC site:
http://www.outdoors.org/”

“Well...it'll be a 687 mile drive for me, which means a looooooong days drive there and back, and (frankly) there's lots of other more closer places I'd like to hike. Of course, I'd like to go...but I know I won't!”

“Buddur can you spare a drive?”

“Can I come? I'll bring my pocketknife.”

“A good hike that PedXing mentioned is a Lafayette to Washington trek. If I can get the wife interested enough, I would like to do that hike next year. It can be done in 3 or 4 days depending on how fast one wants to go.”

“Bill and I should be close to this area in Sept. were planning on leaveing Maine the first weekend in Aug so by then we should be close. Ill see on the itinerary how we look. this would be so cool to meet up with you guys in the whites!!!!!!!”

“MOM, I thought that your thru hike began already? I was gonna post a thread today seeing if anyone had heard of your progress, you are still going right?”

“To be specific (and a little less conservative in my estimates), if 'dude and 'sirpete (and others who will take a while to get to and from the Whites) devote a week to the trip this would allow for two days for mostly transportation and some hiking and 5 full days of hiking.

This would allow a group to go from the Franconia Notch parking lot to Gorham NH (a little above the presidentials). The distance would be a bit over 30 miles (estimating here). This would leave some slack (the two partial days and the option of speeding up) in case of delays from things like severe weather above the timberline.

We could cover some extra miles by hiking to lonesome lake (maybe staying there for night #1) and going from there to Gorham - thus incorporating AmyG's plan.
Another miles added plan would be to go from the I-93 lot to Grafton Notch in Maine.

There is a shuttle bus around much of the Whites, and plenty of trails for coming down from the AT this builds in some extra flexibility.

The Lafayette to Washington DC trek would be a good goal dude, pete and otheres didn't have the whole weeek.

What Airports are the air travelers likely to use. I might be able to pick people up at Logan (Boston) or Manchester NH.”

“ooooh, Lonesome Lake sounds inviting!
;o)

A friend of mine just hiked Franconia a short while ago and the views were incredible from the pics I saw...of course, everything looks different when the trees aren't in Winter mode, but still...

I have only had a mere taste of the White Mountains, so anywhere we go will be great. I am flexible.”

“Ped
I found a flight from Nashville to Manchester & back for $215. That sounds reasonable.
One question about the camping. Everybody talks about the expence of the Huts but what about NOT staying at a Hut? Do they not allow it through there? I know above treeline conditions can get rough but is it really THAT bad?

Thanks for the input so far everybody. Hope some of yall can make it.”

“big question... If ( I stress If) joy and I can make it we would want to bring Abby. Would y'all object, be honest. If not this would be something we could swing. She goes on her first overnighter next month,if all goes well she will be our newest piece of bping gear LOL!”

“If I had a newborn, I wouldn't subject them to several days in the Whites. Besides, That's ALOT of extras! I'm not about to tell ya "no" but I'd wait till she was older if she was my kid.”

“good points dude.”

“We still hope you and Joy can make it though! One day I do wanna get to hike with all three of ya but Abby may be just a bit young still for a trip like this one.”

“I just transplanted to California, so no longer an east coaster, but I wanted to give a big thumbs up to the Franconia Notch area--absolutely incredible hiking (as AmyG, i think, mentioned). Did the ridge area in a storm--never had horizontal rain hit me before...

Still a great time. Have fun, y'all are making me miss the east coast...”

“hyper - there was a guy who used to post here, ajgoodkids (I think) - if I remember correctly he and his wife have twins and they started taking them out very young. He went to LOTT then I don't know where - maybe Amy knows. Looking at their pictures I'd say they didn't let anything stop them from gettin' out and bet they'd have some good tips.”

“Hyper, ajgoodkids posts on OAN! some. There are several older threads on there about hiking with children. Several of these guys have wee ones and they discuss starting them out on the trail.”

“Walkindude,

There are a bunch of official camp sites along the route. More than 1/2 have caretakers and charge 6 dollars a night. One job the caretakers have is making sure people aren't camped out illegally (which probably means just about anywhere outside the huts and camp sites). There is little or no camping allowed away from designated sites.

The worst above treeline conditions I've encountered in the summer was in along a stretch of trail that was all boulders. The fog was so thick that I couldn't see 10 yards, couldn't make out a trail and couldn't see any trail blazes on the rocks in either direction. Temp was 40 and winds were about 35-45 MPH. I've heard
first hand tales of sudden snow storms with lightening and 60 MPH winds in early September.

When I was stuck in the fog, I'd move ahead slowly.. guessing where the trail was going while my son stayed put. When I located a blaze I'd call for him. When I needed to backtrack we'd call back and forth so his voice would guide me back. Generally, you can just wait below tree line if the weather is gpoing to be dangerous. There are few legal places to spend the night above the treeline... the backpacker room at the Mt. Washington observatory is the one exception I can think of off hand.

People can die on Mount Washington any month of the year, and it does snow every month of the year.”

“Walkindude,

There are a bunch of official camp sites along the route. More than 1/2 have caretakers and charge 6 dollars a night. One job the caretakers have is making sure people aren't camped out illegally (which probably means just about anywhere outside the huts and camp sites). There is little or no camping allowed away from designated sites.

The worst above treeline conditions I've encountered in the summer was in along a stretch of trail that was all boulders. The fog was so thick that I couldn't see 10 yards, couldn't make out a trail and couldn't see any trail blazes on the rocks in either direction. Temp was 40 and winds were about 35-45 MPH. I've heard
first hand tales of sudden snow storms with lightening and 60 MPH winds in early September.

When I was stuck in the fog, I'd move ahead slowly.. guessing where the trail was going while my son stayed put. When I located a blaze I'd call for him. When I needed to backtrack we'd call back and forth so his voice would guide me back. Generally, you can just wait below tree line if the weather is gpoing to be dangerous. There are few legal places to spend the night above the treeline... the backpacker room at the Mt. Washington observatory is the one exception I can think of off hand.

People can die on Mount Washington any month of the year, and it does snow every month of the year.”

“Ped, I like those ideas of yours a lot. I have spent some time in the great gulf wilderness but I haven't really done any traverses, my friend Jerry on the other had is much better versed than I am. I am all for the suggestions you are making they sounds great! My only concern would be to keep the costs down for everyone and the huts tend to be expensive. If we do that trip from Franconia to Gorham that you were talking about we will need to use some of the huts wont we? Perhaps we could hike into the gulf wilderness and camp just above the Wamasutta trail and do some day hikes to Washington , Adams, Madison and Jefferson, what do you think about that? Or we can do what AmyG was taking about. I am very flexible but I guess we should nail down some tentive plans. As for me my time isn't limited I am going to take the week off from work so I will have about 9 days free but I don't think everyone else will be as lucky. This will allow me plenty of time to travel, hike and spend some good hard earned mony on GEAR in North Conway! Hey Buddur just drive to PA and we can go up together. I can also get Dude at the airport but if it works out better that you can get him Ped all the better! As far as shuttles we may have enough Vehicles to take care of our selves if we have to.”

“Also, Dude: I or someone else local should be able to pick you up at Manchester... it would probably take less than two hours to drive from the Airport to Franconia Notch by car, and a little longer to travel by Bus (Concord Trailways is usually the best).”

“Ped you posted before me haha It sounds like youv'e done this particular trip before, is that true? 6 bucks a night isn't bad at all and that would be an awesome trip for use all to do!”

“ok, now I'm gettin' psyched! Let's go tomorrow!! >:D

heheheh...just kiddin'. sorry, got a little too enthused, I s'pose. I reeeally need to get out on the trail soon. LOL

>ahem<
As you were...”

“me too I think I'm going to the Catskills over Easter”

“SirPete: I've just done pieces of it at different times... but not the whole thing in one stretch. And I've done a lot of hikes in the Whites away from the AT as well. I'm basically a New England kid.

I like your enthusiasm.”

“Coincidentally, my wife and I just hiked a small portion of the AT last Sept. I agree that the best time to go is after Labor Day and before the leaves start turning. We avoided the crowds and loved it. I will give this serious consideration. What is the cut-off date for RSVP?”

“well, if we aren't doing the backpack shack thang, then we don't need advance permits, right Ped? So, I don't think its necessary to commit this early, yes?

Pete, yer just a beeg tease...flaunting that in my face. One of my fave playgrounds too...
sniff sniff
have fun, jerky! ;)”

“yeah maybe I'll just show up this time. Seems like every time I want to get up there I have a school project we'll see”

“all work and no play...
all work and no play..
all work and no play.

Think of it as trail therapy...saves the sanity.
Now, what was I saying? >:0”

“COMMITMENT Ahhhh!NO WAY.lol Lookin with one eye! I tink I can make this one. But i will need to be penciled.”

“ALRIGHT!!
Yo Bear!”

“I just ordered the "White Mountains Map Book". Should have it in a few days!”

“Permits are only necessary if the group is connected to some organization or business. Camp sites are first come first served. The only reason for committing in advance would be if you wanted to reserve space in a hut.”

“The follow site should be helpful in planning where to camp: camping info”