THE DEATH OF CATTLE, CHINA, AND ISRAEL!

“Quit viewing my colon! Oh, wait, never mind.”

“The farms of the midwest (corn belt [ soy beans, too]) are devastating the Gulf of Mexico and it's hatcherys. Red Tide is the result of fertilizers running into the Mississip from as far away as MN. They enter the gulf, and fertilize the algae, which grows out of control.

The demand of vegetarians is not totally innocent...”

“Ok Lee, I'll bite. Does a "free" Patestienian State mean that the people in it will be free? I mean, gee will a Jew have the same rights. Will a Palestienian WOMAN have the same rights as a Palestienian MAN. What of the Palestienian Jews? DAM I wish thing could be so simple!”

“Hey, they say that in african countries the rate of colon cancer is so low because 90% of the people have tape worms that keep the lower intestine at an optimal level for them to live in. Should we go out and start licking the ground and try to pick one up?

gojo, to the victor goes the spoils? Who one? The Chineese pilot hit out plane. That wasn't a conflict. Do you also think that we should just allow top secret instrumentation to fall into enemy hands? WOuld they do the same for us if situations were reversed? Hell no. It's our plane regardless and it's our duty to get it and the crew back and prevent that technology form going to the enemy.”

“No one seems to want to talk about China. A country whos trying to control its pop. By kill most of the female babies must be good for something.
They're only second to the old USSR in concern for the enviorment. They got that neet wall and the home of WC's Dollie Lama.”

“Have your oppinion at least at the subjects that you know. Have you ever been in Israel? Do you know how large is this country that we are triing to devide? And if after agreement the other side starts to bomb you. What will you do if you'll devide NYC and NJ. And the other day NJ will start bombing?”

“Death, what about that Mig 29 a few years back. Pilot wanted to stay here--OK. Russia want the plane back---OK, 3 months later, in boxes. Rules got to play by the rules, just whos?”

“Trinity --

Your question has an easy, and SIMPLE answer, notwithstanding all of the geopolitical, gender, democratic, religious dust that you have tried to stir up.

A "free" Palenstein state, in the context meant in my post SIMPLY means "free" from the unjust yoke of virtual (if not real) slavery that has been imposed on the Palensteinian people by Israel.

A state within which they can, among other things: have elections, have an army, have a government, or . . NOT. Perhaps they will oppress women, or different religious groups, be they Christian, buddists or Jewish.

Point is: Who the F are you, or the government of Israel, to determine what is right or wrong for a people whose land was unjustly stolen from them in 1948 (based on some really weak land claims dating back 2000 years) to assuage Western European and AMerican guilt.

I am sick of my tax dollars, to the tune of billions a year in military and direct financial support, propping up the state of Israel.

Give Israel an ultimatum to withdraw from the occupied territories, if they don't meet it then withdraw all support. If they still don't withdraw, then funnel military and other support to the Palesteinians and kick their f-ing asses out.”

“Trinity --

Your question has an easy, and SIMPLE answer, notwithstanding all of the geopolitical, gender, democratic, religious dust that you have tried to stir up.

A "free" Palenstein state, in the context meant in my post SIMPLY means "free" from the unjust yoke of virtual (if not real) slavery that has been imposed on the Palensteinian people by Israel.

A state within which they can, among other things: have elections, have an army, have a government, or . . NOT. Perhaps they will oppress women, or different religious groups, be they Christian, buddists or Jewish.

Point is: Who the F are you, or the government of Israel, to determine what is right or wrong for a people whose land was unjustly stolen from them in 1948 (based on some really weak land claims dating back 2000 years) to assuage Western European and AMerican guilt.

I am sick of my tax dollars, to the tune of billions a year in military and direct financial support, propping up the state of Israel.

Give Israel an ultimatum to withdraw from the occupied territories, if they don't meet it then withdraw all support. If they still don't withdraw, then funnel military and other support to the Palesteinians and kick their f-ing butts out.”

“hey cool. I hit 'stop' and made one change in my post, and it went with version 1 and verison 2.

The change was from "asses" to "butts" (last line, 2cd to last word). I didn't think it would make it through Matt's censor screen.”

“trinity,
yes, there are no rules. We got away with that because Russia let us. They didn't press hard enough. We can't let that happen. Just because me did it to Russia doesn't mean that they can do it to us.”

“For anyone who might be interested. My son started a low fat with very little red meat diet to gain weight. yes I said to gain weight. he is a little skinny 19 year old and started working out and did the low fat diet thing with no meat and lots of veggies and has gained 40 lbs. now looks a lot less skinny and much more built.he has included in his diet creatine and a protien shake , it has done him good.And as far as the Isreal, Palistine thing That war has been going on since Bible times and will never end so give it up.”

“Russia didn't let us, what could they do....declare war.

Lee, if we told Israel that and they did do you belive the Palestienians would leave it at that? Remember they say they will not be happy untill the State of Israel is no more.”

“I have a solution for our downed aircraft, since our troops are coming home.

As soon as our people are good and safe. Give China 10 minutes warning,then launch a single cruise missile (conventional of course) and blow up the remains of the plane. Problem solved, its a win win for us and a...well a... well they get sh!t but thats okay too.”

“Lee makes some good points, and he thinks along the same lines as me on this subject.

But I also see the point trinity makes, but I think the majority of Palestinians are not suicide bombers, and that things would settle down if something fair was offered.”

“Lee one more thing. In Aug 1974 I sat in the flight line at Tel Aviv watching Israeli F-4s being turned around in 30 min. (fueled, armed, repaired and back in the air ). We were flying the same plane in Vietnan and couldn't do it in 2 hrs. WE are not propping up Israel and in all truth can take care of themselves. We give them aid just like we give it to most of the rest of the world, including our old enemies. And I not for giving every Tom, Dick and Harry country my money either.”

“Now we're down to fair. It was belived to have been fair to form the State Of Israel in the first place. WHO says what is fair?”

“The Romans knew how to solve the problem. In 70 AD they had so many problems in Jerusalum, they went in and destroyrd the city and killed most of the people. Histroy does/can repete itself.”

“Russia could have stopped us from holding the Mig. They could have attacked. It's all a matter of how far is each side willing to go to get what they want. I agree with hyper. Just blow the damn thing up and say done with it. Sure China will bitch but they do that anyway. We can't let more US technology get into enemy hands.”

“real f*cking original, deathmarch & hyperpacker. Blowing up the plane was the idea I first proposed on the China Is Our Enemy thread - days ago. Jezus at least pay attention to what's already been discussed, dumbasses.

You guys are a day late and a doller short.”

“A "doller"? You are a doller short on your spelling, peeney.

And I must agree with gojo, your language toward Joy is uncalled for. It makes me ignore everything and anything else you have to say.”

“running girl, ignore this then: I DON'T GIVE A RED RAT'S ASS”

“Don't start talking about Rat's asses unless you want to start something with Sarabelle!”

“:P”

“I'll skip the argument about ethical treatment of animals on factory farms and go ahead to make this point: do you want all that concentrated sh!t in your water system?

Supposedly a state's DNR (or other environmental control group) will make the producer file stuff about how much manure there'll be and when it will be spread and WHERE. It may be asked that the manure actually be injected into the ground to help prevent runoff into streams.

Ya know what? Doesn't always work. I know of a place where a factory hog farm sits high atop the watershed for a trout stream which even has naturally-reproducing trout (need a clean stream for that). Hate to think it might not be for long. Everyone is protesting (and a lawsuit was filed) against the facility and the DNR.

Accidents always happen. Guess then you're up Sh!t Creek. Quite literally.”

“peenney,
you and all your posts need only one response.

!$%& OFF”

“"The demand of vegetarians is not totally innocent..."

I agree totally with your statement Gojo. In comparison though, horticulture is as gental as a spring rain. Improved farming methods would take care of a great deal of that problem by stopping erosion.”

“How can you people eat plants? Just think, the poor things are planted in a huge field where the only thing feeding them is the rain and an occaisonal piece of machienery. Then they are harshly cut or pulled from the ground without warning only to be sold at bulk rate. Then they are put on the shelves being kept alive by little misters thay spray water on them occaisonally. From there people buy them and do the ultiamte of all horrors. They either eat them alive or cook them alive. We need to stop this cruelty towards plants. Plants have rights too. Save the plants. Open your doors and let your house plants free!”

“Not only that, but asapragus makes my pee stanky!!!”

“Deathmarch, I think you're missing the point. I don't think many of us on this side of the factory farm argument are PETA animal rights activists. Only Wild Child. And only sorta even then. He never can make up his mind.”

“I know. I'm just making the final stand on the issue that no one else has.


Save the Veggies!”

“peeney, i don't fault your uncle for feeding his family. truly i think you're taking this just alittle too personally. i don't agree with you though and won't.

you can call me a hypocrite, uneducated, etc. you don't bother me a bit. why don't you email me and i'll give ya my reasons for why i don't like factory farms. and remember...you can buy free range and amish raised meat at the grocery. we can also purchase sides or quarters of beef from local farmers. you can find my addy in hyperpacker's info.”

“There are a lot of people posting on this thread that could use 15 - 30 minutes with a decent history of Jewish immigration and Zionism in the Palestinian era. There's other stuff that is useful to know as well.

For example, over the last 1,000 years (with the exception of the past ccentruy) it was Chirtians, especially crusaders wheo massacred jews in the holy lands and Moslems who protected them, respected the temple and the temple mount and supported a jewish presence in Jerusalem. The crusaders were a major force in "cleansing" palestine/the holy lands of Jews.”

“gojo you make a great point about fertilizers. they are the largest source of polution in the world. too bad there isn't more incentive for farmers to go organic.”

“Always remember, Hitler was vegetarian. Look what it did to him!”

“There is a solution to chemical fertilizers and pesticides. That is Geneticly engeneered crops. There are already versions that are toxic to pests and make haveing to spray pesticides not necessary. There are also high yield crops and crops that don't require as much water in the works. The only problem is that there is another group of protesters fighting that.”

“DM99, I thought that monsanto was genetically engineering crops to be resistant to Roundup. I could be wrong though.”

“Yea, they've already done that, but they are also working on the crops actually being toxic to critters such as corn bore and the like. BTW, Purdue is the leading university in crop genetics research.”

“But my point is, Roundup is a weed killer that is sprayed all over the crop. Are they going to stop doing that because they've engineered the crop to be pest resistant? My guess is no.”

“DM99 -
My comment about the spoils of victory was not in reference to the China situation. My point was that the Allies won Okinawa and the Middle East in WWII. We took a chunk of Japan, and gave a chunk of the Middle East to the Jews.”

“Joy, The roundup ready crops do actually reduce herbacide usage because instead of putting down specific chemicals for each type of weed, they can spray on chemical. Once they develope a good version of a pest resistant crop, I bet farmers will switch to it. It's less work and money for them.”

“DM yes you can make all kinds of swell genetically engineered food.Here is the problem, when Monsanto for example makes a particular variety of potato resistent to the colorado potato beetle the also get a patent and trademark for that product, You cannot legally use ANY of that potato for seed potatos next season. The idea of a patent on something as basic as potatoes freaks the crap outta me.
Monsanto literally pays people to drive around corn farming areas and spray roundup on corn. Very small test plots are used,did I mention that the landowner/farmer hasnt given permission for this invasion of property. If after a given time the corn hasnt died,Monsanto will look up to see if the owner has purchased the resitant strain (which is registered), If not they find out who sold them they seed and take legal action against them. Farmers have traditionally kept a small portion of their crop as next years seed. with Monsanto you cannot legally do so. The people they hire to do spray tests are neighbors or local silo owners who are hard up for cash and need $$$$. This genetic tinkering and patenting of food is a very dangerous road,IMHO.

PS to the fine folks at Monsanto and all affiliated companies. This was a purely hypothetical exchange of IDEAS only,please treat this as a legal disclaimer alleviating me of all and any misrepresentation of facts, and legal liability thereof and therein remember this is all hypothetical. Good Day!”

“Most all seeds are hybrids developed by one of the many many seed companies. DeKalb, for instance, is a huge provider of seed, especially corn. I would assume that all are patented. Seed piracy has been a problem for a looong time.”

“Hybrids arent the problem. Its when a potato is genetically tinkered with to prevent colorado potato beetle infestation. Those beetles gotta eat and will. They will travel to neighboring farm and eat his cause he couldnt afford the high tech (read that as high cost) seed. plus we cant starve poor little potato beetles ,see the 2/3's extinction thread.”

“Plus most hybrids are made by cross breeding plants to get desired traits. Their dna hasnt been altered.”

“Hydroponic dooby rocks!

Sorry I couln't resist!”

“hyper,
yes there would be problems like that, but problems are inherrent with progress. These problems would just have to be solved through legislation, say something similar to those regulating prescription drugs where a patent only lasts so long. Yes the potatoe beetle must eat, but would you rather it die by eating chemicals sprayed that get into ground water or just by eating the plant?”

“Deathmarch, you really piss me off sometimes. I'm sure you're a great guy and fun to be with on the trail, but this GE (genetically engineered) food talk gets to me. 'Progress' is not always (or even the majority of the time) a good thing. In the case of GE food, I'd have to say that the evils - and potential evils that we have no clue about - outweigh the potential benefits. Corn resistant to some beetle pest may also screw with other little boogers of animals and plants that we really have no clue about. The fact is, we know even less about the intricacies of ecology than we know about genetic engineering. Also, pesticide and herbicide use would not be economically necessary if certain farming practices - such as polycropping - were implemented. It IS possible to grow food responsibly. The corporations and their universities - like Purdue - just need to face these things.”

“You say that polycropping would eliminate the need for pestacides? Can you explain that one to me please? Also, genetic engeneering would probably have less an impact. With sprayed on pestacides all insects are affected, including benifitial ones. If the plant itself is the pesticide, then only the bugs that bite will be affected. Also, not all the focus is on killing the insects. There is also focus on just rendering the bug sterile after injesting the plant matter. This would leave a few plants open to damage, but could not pass and "poision" down the food chain. The "little buggers" as you put it just couldn't reproduce, so their numbers would be kept to a minimum. This is growing food responsibly, the only irresponsibe thing to do is ignore technology which could be be benifitial. Oh yea, Purdue is also a leading school in alternative farming methods like polycropping and hydroponics and they still study genticly altered crops.”

“When it comes to my food I like to keep it as natural as possible. I don?t like the engineered stuff. There is usually a cost for the benefits and it?s usually less nutrients in the veggies.

Yeah, Monsanto is a great product. My friend?s father worked for them for years and dealt with the products directly. He just died a few hours ago from leukemia. Great stuff. 8(”