“I lived in NY and saw an article about doing a hike for those who wanted to excape the city. What appealed to me was getting away from the concrete jungle, communing with nature, seeing beauty, being in solitude and getting excersize all at the same time.

Since the hike was advertised in a popular magazine, there were lots of people there. I had a lot of fun on that hike and sought out other destinations for different views and more solitude and continued on from there.”

“I had an older brother who let me tag along when I was young. That ended when he got to the "girls, yuck!" stage, so I started hiking by myself, then backpacking. I have to admit there are not many female backpackers in my area and I still get some funny stares and rude comments from members of the "good ole' boys club". The younger guys are not at all surprised and are much more accepting. The reason that we are now well equipped with expensive gear is that we control most of the money in the world, don't ya know! LOL”

“Mtngal, I sure wish you'd cover yourself.

I was always dissapointed that my girl scout troop never did much outdoorsy stuff.

There still don't seem to be too many women on Michigan's trails. It's pretty rare to see any w/o a man in tow.”

“I wish there were more women on the trails around here. It'd be great to ditch Hyper and go out on a girls only weekend trip. My girl friends would never go backpacking.”

“Mad.R, My Dear...

How old ARE you anyway?

I must admit that when I started backpacking, at least SERIOUS backpacking anyway, there weren't too many women out there, but there WERE women.
And this was in the mid 70's and early 80's.
The more years that passed, the more women I saw out on the trail.
Most of the time early on, the ladies were escorted by their husbands or boyfriends'.
I started out hiking with my boyfriend, then I managed to talk a girlfriend of mine into going out there with me. After I got that far, I decided I could do it alone.
I hiked alone for years after that.
Nowdays, it's quite common for me to see a woman hiking alone, or women in groups of two, to five or more.
In talking to the women I've met on the trail, I found the reason many of them waited so long to take backpacking was that they were afraid to tackle what seemed to be a mans' sport.
You know....heavy packs, absolutely no knowledge about the equipment required, bears, dirt, maps, fear of possible crazy people out there....those kinds of things.
Finally, all it took to get them out on the trail was meeting other women who had taken the initiative by going out on a weekender, and then finding out it was far easier than they ever imagined.
The ratio of men to women in the Sierras is still probably 10 to one, but that's an improvement from what it was 20 years ago; 50 to one.”

“Thank you all for your comments:


When I started hiking and backpacking in the early 70's, you rarely saw any women backpackers. I did know women who camped however, but their activities revolved around the campground and not venturing off into the woods.


What I like about the women backpackers of today is that they will think nothing of getting a group of women together to go backpacking for a five day trip. Honestly, how often did you see a group of women backpackers in the 70's willing to spend five days in the woods?


Contrary to what you might think, I believe this increase in the amount of women backpacking is great for the sport and great for the environment. Last summer while hiking to the Zealand hut, my wife and I came upon a group of teenage backpackers. The group was made up of three boys and two girls. What my wife and I found inspirational about this group was that the women were in the lead and showing the boys the ropes so to speak. Even my sister who would laugh at me for hiking and "getting all dirty", has been converted to the ways of the woods now that here youngest is a Boy Scout.


I'm glade the ratio of men to women has changed during my hiatus from the sport, for it signals an increase in awareness that sports, like life, are meant to be enjoyed by all.”

“This is not intended to be inflamatory or frivolous.

I have discovered that backpacking is very popular with homosexuals. Particularly homosexuals who are "in the closet". I was surprised at first, but it makes perfect sense. A seemingly macho activity that provides seclusion and intimacy away from one's straight family and friends.

I have aquaintances who are married men with kids who maintain a gay relationship in the woods. Their wives do not suspect a thing. I only found out from a mutual friend who's brother died of Aids. Long story, but it soon became obvious that these guys have a rather large network of homosexual hiking friends.

It is not unlikely that lesbians would migrate towards this activity also. The group of females may have been homosexuals. There has been a recent explosion of homosexual networking with the internet and openess of the homosexual community.

This is not a flame post, it is a real life example.”

“flamer!”

“I hear ya, Mr.River. I couldn't eblieve all the women on the trail in the Adirondacks...makes me believe I'm living in the wrong region to find a girlfriend having "outdoor needs"!”

“MadRiver, on NOLS this summer, there were 3 guys and 7 girls. After the first ration period, there were only two of us guys. Most of the girls were pretty badass. They were hefting 65 lb packs with no prob. And the weren't butch either bacpac. They were actually some of the better looking women I've seen in my life. Ahhh. . . paradise. Anyway, some of them just flat out kicked our asses. Any of you dudes who think women are the inferior sex have yer heads so far up yer stinky butts that Sarabelle would smell ya from a mile off. You're probably afraid of women too. You might even be, GASP. . . a homosexual. Oh no!

Mtn Gal, why'd you quit kayaking?? Paddling is just too much fun if you ask me!”

“Any post that contains the words "this is not a flame" surely is just that.”

“Strange days have found us
Strange days have tracked us down
They're going to destroy
A casual choice!”

“bacpac has outed us. The secret is now known. We hike into the mountains and meet at a location we have encoded in the text of a web page. There we dance naked around a big fire and have all night orgies. Backpacking is just an excuse to form a large mass of women on women sex. Please don?t tell my hubby. (for those in palm beach county that was sarcasm. I wouldn?t know if there is any validity to what bacpac wrote)

“Bacpac said: "I have discovered that backpacking is very popular with homosexuals...these guys have a rather large network of homosexual hiking friends"

What we have here is a logical fallacy - a hasty generalization. Your sample isn't large enough to make the generalization that backpacking is popular with homosexuals.

You dumbass. Do you honestly believe you're making insightful social commentary about homosexuals with your idi-f*cking-otic logic? Gawd you must be either a moron, a homophobe, or trolling for a heated argument. My guess is all three.

Here's an idea for you: stop insulting everyone's intelligence with your witless, dull commentary. I mean, why make a fool of yourself??? You already posted a racist remark in the WKRP thread - don't make it worse for yourself.”

“Mountain Gal, please put your clothing on. Thank you.”

“Does that mean bacpac runs away sreeming when he sees a homosexual?
I love the term ?homophobe?. What does it mean? I would have thought that it referred to someone that was afraid of homosexuals but it seem to be applied to anyone that thinks the ?lifestyle? in immoral or wrong in some other way. So apparently a ?homophobe? is anyone that does not accept the ?lifestyle? as completely normal and natural. So here we have another example of the misuse of the language. Bastardized English. (Note to trolls: This was a comment about language not about sexual preference, my preference is in favor of sex.)”

“mtn gal said: "Does that mean bacpac runs away sreeming when he sees a homosexual?"

Um, I'm guessing he'd run away screaming because he doesn't like to be confronted with latent homosexual feelings.

I think that that viewing homosexuality as a lifestyle (meaning choice) and inherently bad or wrong IS a form of fear born of ignorance. Most homosexuals are looking for love, sex, and commitment, just like heteros. That's not a lifestyle, that's just what humans tend to want and go after.”

“http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=homophobe

cut and paste. I hope it works.”

“mtn gal-

Loved your trip report but where are the pictures?!!!”

“Personally, I don't really care if backpackpackers prefer sex partners who have complimentary or matching parts. Neither do I care if they are waiting for a wedding ring, the begining of WWIII or the next opportunity.

Well, OK, in the case of a woman I'm really interested in, its nice to know if she might beinterested in me. And, since I wouldn't undergo major surgery to attract a woman... her anatomical preferences would be relevant.

Nonetheles, judging from interactions I've witnessed between strong and sturdy female hikers traveling without men, and men, traveling without women, I have concluded that the trails are lousy with practicing heterosexuals.”

“Good attempt to get'em going, bacpac. Man, you will stop at nothing...........LOL!!

OK, my own trip into the outdoors.........

Grew up on a farm. Thought nothing about exploring the hills and valleys and the creek way at the back end of the farm (got well-acquainted with all by "bringing in the cows".... yup, our Brown Swiss, for milking. Think running those hillsides also got me in great shape for a pretty good track career in jr. high and high school)

We'd find arrowheads all over in the fields. My father thought one place might even be an old Indian burial ground.

Anyway, then it was off to college. And life in the big (OK, not so big...lol) city. Then I found myself divorced after seven years of marriage. All this time I'd been getting a bit more back to nature, hiking just a little... and mt. biking. That interest started with the ex's time spent motocrossing..... and he also got a mt. bike, for which I thought, "I gotta have one of those!!" Geez, we had bikes in the early 80s, waaaaaaaay before they were popular!

After the divorce, I'd be the single female you'd spot out hiking and biking. And I took it upon myself to learn the nooks and crannies of some great DNR land and state forest land in my area, all along the Upper Iowa River, trout streams, Yellow River, the Mississippi and more....... getting back and away from it all on some almost 1,000 acre parcels of hills and bluffs and valleys.

Sometimes I'd run into hunters, who I'm sure thought, "What the heck is this gal out here all alone for?" (And since this is NOT ARKANSAS, bacpac, I was left alone just fine......lol... now that I've said that, I'll be killed my next time out. Shoot, had to open my mouth!)

I also took to traveling the west BY MYSELF because I wanted to know the territory and all its glories. I'd plan a day hike up into Indian Peaks.... or mt. biking near the Collegiate Peaks or a hike to the top of Angel's Landing at Zion. Camping and backpacking were the next logical extensions of this love of discovery of nature and getting into the outdoors.

(Actually I got divorced cuz I'm a lesbian and just haven't found the right gal on the trail yet.) ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!”

“?PHOBIA = an irrational, excessive and persistent fear of some particular thing or situation? Webster?s New World Dictionary.

It is not just an aversion but a fear, and not just any fear but an ?irrational, excessive and persistent fear?. Aversion could apply to anyone that would not live the ?lifestyle?. So are all non-homosexuals homophobes? Your web dictionary is wrong and is just another example of how our language is being use wrong.

Whether or not you agree with them, those that think homosexuality is wrong do have rational reasons for their believes and this believe is not necessarily a fear. I think bestiality is wrong, does that make me a bestiahobe? Are you a theologaphobe because you disagree with person religious believes? If you buy the present use of the term ?homophobe? then you must answer yes to these last two or repeat after me: ?I am a hypocrite, I am a hypocrite, I am a hypocrite?. Thank you, you may go now”

“Ped-
Practice makes perfect.”

“Mtn gal, you crack me up. You trying to make a point about semantics is absolutely hilarious. You have the worst command of the English language of anyone in this forum. Even the child ice tea posts with better spelling and grammar than you. I mean, what the hell are "religious believes"? You, of all people, saying that a dictionary is wrong shows me you have no concept of how foolish you come across when you post your garbled ideas. Face it: you can't write worth a sh1t and you're unprepared to debate because you lack knowledge and insight.”

“And yet Peeney's (or is it Peenis') opinions are SOOOO much more important than anyone's that he has to hide behind a fake name. Riiiiight...”

“Main Entry: ho·mo·phobe
Pronunciation: -"fOb
Function: noun
Date: 1975
: a person characterized by homophobia


Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
- ho·mo·pho·bic /-'fO-bik/ adjective”

“I'm confused. How exactly did my observation that there has been an increase in women backpackers over the year's lapse into a "discussion" on homosexuality? I have gay and straight friends whom backpack so I'm curious.”

“I am always gay in the woods! >:D

la-la-la-laaaaa!

hi Lizs! wink wink
LOL”

“Hey, Madriver, Where have you been? The answer is that women have always been doing this stuff, but no-one wondered about it until the 60's when it became dogma that women were excluded from everything. I think it was because, like the rest of the things that people resented and protested against, young people were being educated after a long dry spell of First World War, Depression and Second World War. The new leisure class was becoming educated.

My mom and dad used to take the train from Montreal in the 30's to St-Sauveur (le petit train du nord) on Friday night and ski over to Shawbridge and return by train on Sunday night.

Jack O'Connor wrote back in the 50's that women (including his own 'Storm and Strife' as he called her) were often better hunters than the men (not wound up over the macho need to perform, he believed). My experience is that women are often better anglers than the men - I'll give my ex that (but I never showed her my favourite spots). Yes, some men get a little pissy about that.

If you look up the illustrations in books - recent to VERY old, you'll see women everywhere, climbing Mont Blanc in long skirts, riding to hounds and hunting with falcons. The Brits have wonderful illustrations of women standing over a wide variety of wild and often previously dangerous ex-animals in remote and exotic parts of the world. The oldest (extant) book in English on fly fishing was, in fact, written by a woman: Dame Juliana Berners in 'A Treatyse on Fishing with an Angle' in the 'Boke of Saint Albans'.

I too have noticed a burst of activity in the out of doors. Young people graduated from Outdoor Ed. programmes in high school, university students in varsity outing clubs and empty nesters such as myself (and perhaps you?) getting back to what we love.

JUST WISH I COULD FIND ONE FOR MYSELF!

Good luck and happy trails.”

“Excellent point, Mountain Gal. Always question the source. I'm a little dubious of unknown on-line sources myself. Merriam-Websters Collegiate Dictionary happens to also have an online version that can be found at http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary. For your review:

One entry found for homophobia.

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
- ho·mo·pho·bic /-'fO-bik/ adjective

Mad River, it's been labeled "Thread Degeneration."

All, someday I'll try that fancy link stuff.”

“Bad link. Sorry. Try this one http://www.m-w.com/”

“Ken's link for da lazy

;o)”

“Thanks Ken:

I will keep that in mind if I ever summon the courage to ask another question. *lol*”

“That the dictionary defines homophobia as discrimination proves mtn gal's point; the English language has been misused, and now it's official.
Because the dictionary will, of course, add words that the public has been making use of, and use the public's definition.”

“Thank-you gremlin!

And don't forget the very first registered Maine guide, Cornelia Thurza "Fly Rod" Crosby.”

“Glad to see you are getting back out. I hope, though, that you noticed significant strides made by women in the urban setting too.

I attribute all of this to equal education, which translated to equal opportunities, which translates to..."he ain't better than me" and that attitude came from women being equitably educated. And all this attributed and started with the mass public education of the boomers...That process tore down the ugly myths about what women could/should do and opening the doors to the endless possiblities that their brothers had,”

“Peeney... just to remind you... when you and BacPac go at it, you are both consenting adults.

Same thing goes for me, I choose whether to ignore him or not.”

“Peeny, bacpac may have fallen into a hasty generalization, but I see nothing in what he wrote that criticized nor showed any aversion or fear toward homosexuals. Your personal (ad hominum) attacks reveal you to be the one who is fearful and threatened. You are the flamer and the troll, not bacpac.

I have both hetero and homosexual friends who are of the outdoor adventure persuasion and my experience has been that, in fact, the great outdoors is a very accepting place for social interaction. Isn't that at the heart of bacpac's query? That in daily life it is difficult to avoid being judged, while out in the woods you don't have to be? Not every hetero group that goes hiking does so just to have sub rosa sex, nor do the gays. Yet I bet all of us like to hike and camp with persons whose company and lifestyle we enjoy. I say, welcome all to the woods and mountains and prairies and valleys. Enjoy the places and each other's company.

And, as a matter of fact, there are specific outfitters/guides who do arrange treks/vacations that are gay oriented. I know of at least one company that has worked the gay triangle into its logo, though it is not obvious to its non-gay clients. It just means they are tolerant of a group that, demographics have shown, have disposable income and are willing to spend it.

As to whether this has anything to do with more women on the trails, bacpac, you'll have to do a legitimate survey, with carefully contructed survey tools. Better to spend your time on the trail, making friends with the people you meet.

And as far as the history of women on the trail goes, read any of Isabella Bird's books from the late 1800s, such as "A Lady's Life in the Rocky Mountains," about her various solo treks around the world.”

“To answer MadRivers original question, I've always been a bit of a tomboy. Rather get dirty than play with dolls kind of kid. I've camped since I was a very young. Used to hang out on the local river trails. Started backpacking in highschool (during the 70's). Stopped for a while when the kids were young and started again several years ago when I could afford to replace gear. Kayaking is fast taking over as my favorite outdoor avtivity.

To answer your second question, it's called "thread disinigration". This happens frequently. It is usually caused by trolls or those who have no respect and tolerance for others. On occasion it's done in a fun manner.”

“A father watched his daughter playing in the garden.He smiled As he reflected on how sweet and innocent his little girl was.

Suddenly she just stopped and stared at the ground. He went over to her and noticed she was looking at two spiders mating

"Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked.

"They're mating," her father replied.

"What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked.

"That's a daddy longlegs," her father answered.

"So, the other one is a mommy longlegs?" the little girl asked.

"No," her father replied. "Both of them are daddy longlegs."

The little girl stared for a moment, then took her foot and smashed them flat.

"Well, we're not having THAT sort of shIt in our garden!"”

“Pekka, haven't you been here long enough to know bacpac's tactics at getting people going? It is a true thrill of life for him, I believe. (And perhaps, regarding gays in the backwoods, he is living that too. WHEN was your last DATE, bacpac?? wink, wink.....)

And to AmyG.......when ya coming out this way gal? Ya know, if we could just ever meet up, I could surely help ya forget that foray with the Wild Child. SHUDDER!! and a wink back at'cha ;-)

Mooooooooohahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!”