Trail right of way

“A group of Mt bikers did almost run over my doggie! I was scared for him, and he was really scared!”

“Here is one answer to the uphill/downhill question:

http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/hiking/expert/ex129903.htm”

“I think ww raises a good point about volunteering for trail work days. In my area, most of the trails were created and maintained by backpackers. If more mountain bikers were to get out there and do the unglamorous stuff, there might be less resistance to them sharing the trails (bikes do more damage I'm sure). Between that and showing a little courtesy, we might find that there is more than enough space for everyone.

Ped - I use an old canal towpath when I need to open it up. You can flat out fly and have great visibility. Like the RR r.o.w., the main challenge does come from eroded areas but it has the added challenge of having a canal on one side and a river on the other - wipe out and you'd better know how to swim.”

“I thought Violin was a chick till I just looked at his info! ewwwwwwwww!

Where are all the hotties!”

“Well, thought that the downhill hiker had the right of way... but after my survey and search... it looks like the vast majority of sites online say the uphill hiker should have the right of way. Some say neither, one said the downhill. So, my mind has been changed.

Personally, I've mostly relied on politeness and eye contact. I've also been extra careful to give larger groups the right of way and to yeild to people who seem to be having a hard time.”

“If you walk tall and carry a big stick, people will get outa the way!”

“I wish mountain bikers would get off their bikes and build their own trails. Some of us have a lot of sweat equity in our trails and we don't appreciate mountain bikers ripping around and making their own rules.

You want you own rules build your own trails.”

“I'm reeeeeal glad you find me repulsive CX!”

“I've posed the same question on Backpacker Magazines message board and it's unanimous. The hierarchy:

Horse
Hiker
Biker
Vehicle

Uphill traffice has right of way.”

“If one was to every encounter a rude biker on the trail, immediately drop to the ground and shield yourself with the backpack. What is called the turtle position. Once the biker has been violently separated from the bike, immediately administer first aid. Quickly wrap the wrist behind the back, the ankles and knees with duct tape. Don't forget to gag the mouth also. Once those steps are completed simply role the biker and bike over the hill.

Another alternative to the turtle position, is the pack swing. Simply turn you back and pack into the rider. Once again letting the pack take the brunt of impact. Then follow the same steps as above. Remember to have fun when hiking!!!”

“Other than as a topic of conversation (on the trail), I can think of no situation where bitching about the infraction will change anything but your attitude on the trail. While most would agree that their response in here will not exactly coincide with their response on the trail (especially if you're surprised by the oncoming traffic), the inevitable end to the situation comes about from how we handle it.

Some bikers, some riders, some backpackers, some drivers... all will have their own, private thoughts about who deserves the right-of-way, be they right or not. And their propensity for thinking a certain way is indicative of the pattern of their thinking, a circumstance which such brief reactions aren't likely to change. Our response will impact how WE feel, not the sensibilities of the offender. So what am I saying here?

Seems to me that regardless of who ACTUALLY has the LEGTIMATE r-o-w, the exercise of common sense, consideration, compassion - call it what you like - would do far more to enrich YOUR day, and, I might add, that's the point of being out there in the first place.

I, too, have seen numerous postings - here and on the trail - about the hierarchy of the right-of-way. It may not make sense to some, but them's the rules, and not following them could put your attorney and mine in the same courtroom, should it come to that. Now... who do you think a decision's likely to favor? I'm guessing the person with the "posted" right of way.

Many times, we meet head on with the absence of logic, when asked to follow the rules. Government does it. Employers do it. It happens in relationships, and business deals. Do it make sense? Nope. But flout the "rules", and you just might find your a$$ in a sling.

On the trail, anyway, I'll get out of the way of anything bigger, faster, and/or dumber than me. Right or not, I trust myself more than anyone - or any THING - that I know.

And that's the truth... Thhhhhppppttttt!!!! (Apologies to Edith Ann)”

“What a puss.”

“convention is bikers yield to hikers, hikers yield to horses. Of course, a little courtesy goes a long way to making everyone's trip more pleasant.”

“ww - Willy Wonka, is that you?

Dunk's right about the heirarchy.

Most bikers I have seen in Southern California don't yield or even slow down. That is why they have been systematically banned from trails in Southern California. They were warned with signs at the trailheads first. But it didn't help. I have been nearly killed twice by bikers going around blind turns and not even giving a warning.

In the local state park (Chino Hills), bikers take the "hiker only" trails all the time...even though the park has lots of great bike trails.

Mountain biking is fun, but not for the hikers who have the crap scared out of them.”

“That's why I bring my gun and my dog on all my hikes! For the mtn bikers who want me to "get the hell out of the way!"

tic”

“While not completely on topic, here's a little morsel that is one of the things I like about my town:

At every crosswalk in town the message "Stop, wait and wave" is painted. When two cars meet at an intersection, it is rare for one to not give the other the right of way with a friendly hand gesture.

Friendliness and courtesy on the road, on the street, and on the trail create a lasting impression.”

“Personally, I always welcome the opportunity to step off the trail and stop/rest, for any reason. At the end of the day, I hope to meet an opposing hiker, biker, or horseman just as an excuse to rest.

I can't imagine anyone not yielding to someone else. How often do these encounters happen? Not very often in my experience, where I hike. Most people take advantage of the encounter to chat for a minute, check directions, ask about water sources etc.

Last summer on a TN trail with some horse traffic, we encountered 5 opposing horsemen. I got at least 20 feet off the trail, as I always do, and stood stock stilll. The last horse in line fixated on me to the point I thought he was going to charge me. Instead, as he came abreast, he panicked, reared, through the rider, and took off back down the trail. I was as scared as he was.

I'd rather get hit by a mountain bike than trampled by a scared horse. There's a reason for the horse right-of-way rule.”

“Oh, what about an opposing (or trailing) hiker with a dog? In addition to stopping, and stepping off the trail, I usually reach for a weapon, especially if the dog is unleashed.”

“I smell a rat, from a tarp he once came
And he goes by the name of Jim Flink
Cyclocross he says, then comes with this thread
Another part of his game I do think

What gives it away, you that were fooled may say
Two facts are there, plain to see
I've no job, he claims, from Georgia I am
But posts 9-5, could it be

Out of now where he comes and opens with a flame
On a subject that is dear to Tarp's heart
But CX speaks of dogs, and a big stick with light chatter
But with none of his wisdom does he part

So look at his picture, with sister and Robert
And coo if you like all you girls
You've been took once again, by Wild Child I'd say
He's dreamed up another one of his pearls”

“Remember the good old days when it was the horses hikers hated most? Them were good times, good times indeed.”

“Mt. bikeing got carried to the fanatic fringe by it`s manufactors,it was never intended to be a motocross bike.
In times gone by we rode very sanely it was just a simple pleasure to get out in the wood`s, we yeilded the right of way to all other trail users.
As a result the park service said there nice guy`s lets give them more trails,MISTAKE,!!
Mt. bikes are now being ridden by insane daredevils who have no reguard for their own life let alone others.
I say cut back the trail use to multiuse trails, and maybe pass out a few citations to federal court to some.!!!

w.w.2ooo”

“I KNOW I posted on this thread... what happened, Matt?”

“If I'm going up a hill and some mad biker comes carelessly flying down the hill, I'll probally get outta the way as I'm calling him a fukin prick. What I would like to have done once I thought about it later would be to clothes line the b@stard with a trekking pole.
If you want my honest oppinion, I don't blame the guy for drilling you with a nut. I also hate horses on the trail too.

To solve the problem with hikers vs. Bikers vs. Horses, They should not be using the same trail unless the tred is wide enough to accept passing.”

“obi wan, I noticed that too all last week. I would post something but I never showed up.”

“I think this guy is one of those trollers or spammers or what ever they are called to get people riled up.”

“I don't think he's a local troll tho...he did the newbie multi post thing.....that's a dead give away. Let tar and feather him!”

“Yes Phil, it is me. I am just peeking my head in quietly and removing it in the same fashion.

I was down for seven months with a physical concern and then a passing in the immediate family shortly thereafter. Quite a year or so to say the least. Back in the saddle (as in on the bike) and will be on my first backpacking trip in a year and a half come June up in your woods.

As for the trail issues you are experiencing in Chino Hills, there are a couple of groups around trying to correct that. The Santa Anas (Cleveland Nat'l Forrest Dist.) is one area of focus that has been successful (one of these mtb groups has taken over ALL trail maintenance, signage issues and educational directives for this area including education of mtber's). I have heard recently that another group wants to replicate the success in Chino Hills.

Hikers will be seeing a big push in and for the MTB community to become more cordial and pleasant as they become more organized and politically powerful in the coming months. The grassroots campaign that started with the IMBA is now having ripple affects in the MTB world. Even Mtb Action (one of the most irresponsible media outlets) has a column dedicated to trail ethics with some harsh words for those that are less responsible.”

“One simple question for mountain bikers: why is it important to you that speed be a part of your outdoor experience? To me, the two seem completely incompatible--but I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

In any case, I think Sky Masterson said it all (and I paraphrase): "My daddy told me there's just one time to be in a hurry: when the police are on the stairs." ;-)”

“Well I didn't think there'd be so much anger against mountain bikers. I can see where there would be hard feelings if mountain bikers take over a trail created by and for hikers, and if the bikers were reckless. However, personally I don't care if bikers fly past me (in control) when I'm walking, unless they get recklessly close. Like walking in the street, I just avoid the bikers like I would step away from cars without even thinking about it - I don't see a reason to get angry only because bikers are passing you.

Tehipite: I only go fast downhill. My chicken legs are too weak for sustained speed otherwise - heh. As for why - it's a rush.

Troll of truth/Willow - I think you're just trying to goad the new guy. I'm too laid back to be interested in yanking people's chains. I think that's what you're accusing me of, anyway.”

“tehipite -

In answer to your question about speed.
Adreniline!

Why do people drive fast, ride roller coasters, skydive?

Of course you do it outside, inside you'd get hurt!

I've no problem letting others do almost anything they want for fun as long as it doesn't pose a hazard to me. If multi-use trails are to work, everyone needs to be considerate. If not, let the bikers build their own trails!”

“Oh man...he's on to me. :)”

“I've never seen a bike in the backcountry.

...guess ya gotta know where they ain't.




There's enough room for us all -
as long as they're seperate rooms.
LOL!”

“BTW: Speed can be lots of fun on a bike. The speed at which you can go through difficult terrain is one measure of increasing agility and mastery of the bike.
For me bodily activities that require you to react more quickly than you can think have a special joy to them (whether juggling or mountain biking).

In the city, I don't mind when bikers zipp past me on the road. Its when they do it weaving in between people on the sidewalk that I get pissed off.

A lot of it just comes down to thinking things through, having manners, and being considerate.”

“You're right Ped. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like most bikers have manners or are interested in being considerate!

I long for the day that Mich. trail bikers decide to turn over a new leaf. There should be room for us all.”

“Although I am not in favor of speed in most situations, especially on multi-use trails, there are actually situations were speed is SAFER then riding slowly. When decending in general, it is easier to manipulate and control the bike when riding with some speed. When one decends through a rocky stretch of trail, speed will elevate the rider over some of the rocks and make it much less likely that the rider's front wheel will get caught and eject the rider (potentially causing injury or worse). Speed and high rpm pedaling will stick a rider to a trail when ascending. This will allow a rider to "clean" or complete a more technical uphill section that could prove to be harmful. Also, it is much easier to balance on two wheels at faster speeds than it is at a stand still (can you track stand easily?).

And yes, I am sure some of it is a rush (excuse the pun).”

“I personally haven't met a bad biker. They seam more considerate and willing to say hello than other backpackers.”

“As both a hiker and a mtn biker, I've always tried to be considerate of the others on any trail. I must say, here in the Northwoods, I've been able to do both without running into ANYone else. Deer hunting, that's the scary season for inconsiderate nincompoops.

But the reason why I'd do one over the other was clear on Sunday when I hiked a multi-use trail. If I'd been on my bike, I would have been grooving more on the motion and exhilaration. I'd never have seen the bear tracks unless I'd been taking a rest stop. So if motion and exhilaration are what I need, I'd grab my bike. If closer contact with my surroundings, a chance to remove some of the motion and achieve inspiration rather than exhilaration is what I need, I'll go on foot. I could appreciate the trail's attraction for a biker Sunday, but I was quite happy to be on foot, and be all alone on the trail.”

“Thanks for the responses. They're pretty much all variations on the same answer (which is what I thought to begin with): it's about adrenaline.

This makes it more a drug experience than an outdoor experience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I hasten to add; adrenaline is a fairly benign drug, as drugs go, and as far as I'm concerned anyone can do any drug they like as long as it isn't in my face (of course, in the case of mountain bikers, it is in my face). But adrenaline is also a pretty easy drug to come by--hell, in San Francisco all you have to do to get some is cross the street--and so this answer begs the question of why it has to be obtained in relatively pristine natural surroundings.

It seems to me that where there is conflict in outdoor use, preference should be given to those who are there to enjoy the outdoors for its own sake--or, to put it another way, those who seek the qualities of the outdoors that are difficult to obtain in developed places (e.g., solitude, quiet, wildlife viewing opportunities, etc.). And, as Pekka's story illustrates, speed is (to some degree) inherently incompatible with one's enjoyment of these qualities. Which makes me wonder why parks whose primary purpose is to preserve these qualities should be expected to accommodate pursuits that are tangential to or in conflict with their appreciation.”