June NH White Mountain's w/e hiketrip.

“Long and breathtaking, huh? A ridge hike certainly sounds awe-inspiring, having seen a few pics of those places you mentioned, MadRiver.

I'm still sorting out travel logistics in my head. I know I'll be going to T.Roosevelt NP and Black Hills in late May to catch flower and birdsong season. If I can manage heading east in mid June, I certainly would like to. But make any plans you want and I'll keep tabs here.”

“One more point, I swear.

The nice thing about the Franconia Ridge is that it allows one to adjust the hike to fit one's ability without much difficulty. If you start from Mt Flume via the Flume Slide Trail, it will be a long day. If that is too much for some, you can lessen the hike by climbing Mt Liberty instead, which by the way starts from the same parking lot. If that is still too much, you can bypass Liberty and Flume by starting with Little Haystack. In this manner, we can all do the hike we want and arrive at the campsite a lot closer in time with one another than if we all started from the same trail.

You may now return to your regularly schedule program.”

“Given the snow, its harder to make firm plans about Mt. Washington. So.. I'm happy to join agree to Mad's basic plan to for Fraconia Ridge for the mid June hike. The Flume slide trail is kinda fun... so we might think about heading up there.

Can anyone (Mad?) provide good directions to the trail head for the Flume slide trail. Is there a good place to leave messages near the trail head (a log or something)?

Mad: How easy is it to find this property of yours?

(Aside: For anyonr hiking later in the season, let me add that climbing Mt. Washington and heading North does have the advantage of letting people vary the legnth of their hike easily while still returning to the same spot. There are also non Mt. Washington hikes that can be done from the Hermit lake area.)”

“Less verbose version: I'm happily signing on to Mad's plan.

Lets fill in some details.”

“Franconia Ridge is IMO the quintesential White Mountains dayhike. While I love the ridgewalks in the Presidentials, Franconia gives you a "top of the world" feeling that you really don't get elsewhere.

It's also crowded, so you absolutely want to get out early. If you start by going up the OBP, past the hut to the summit of Lafayette, then down the ridge, either dropping down the Falling Waters trail or continuing down the ridge to the Liberty Springs trail, you can avoid the bulk of the people, at least during the middle of the day.

I've started up at 6:30 and haven't seen anyone until midday. If you start up at 10:00 you'll have to wait in line at some of the steep narrow sections. There are several trips reports of this hike on my website.

I wouldn't try going down Flume Slide trail, it's really an unpleasant experience. Going up is difficult but OK, going down sucks.

Other great dayhikes in the Franconia area are Moosilauke (several loops) and the Kinsmans, especially from the backside where you won't see hardly anyone until the top.”

“Thank you DARK CONTINETENT!”

“To answer PedXing's question, my land is extremely easy to find. Once we have finalized our itinerary, I will e-mail everyone directions.

Telemark made an interesting suggestion. I was originally proposing that we hike north from Flume to the Garfield campsite, which would be one long ass day. However, I tend to think Telemark's proposal is a tad more realistic.

If I understand his point, he is suggestion that we hike up Lafayette via the Old Bridle Path Trail and head south over Lincoln, Little Haystack and hike to Liberty Spring's campsite. We could drop our packs and set up camp. Those of us who are too tired to hike can remain in camp. The others could hike to the summit of Liberty and then over to Flume and then back to camp.

In the morning, we can hike down Liberty to a few cars that we parked in the morning. The Liberty parking lot is before the Lafayette parking lot so car spotting will be easy.

Another advantage is that hiking down from liberty is significantly shorter than hiking our from the Garfield campsite. Also, if for some reason the Liberty campsite is full we can always camp across the street at the Lafayette campground or return to my place for a night of campfires and revelry.

Telemark's proposal gives us a few more options. What do you all think?”

“I have done the hike that Madriver just outlined. Up the Old Bridle Path, over Lafeyette et al and camped at the Liberty Springs site. It is, in and of inself, a very full day. I did it as either an 18 or 19 year old with a guy friend and girl friend. We got a late start (10am), had been drinking the night before (NOT that YOU will be drinking!!)and although it was a fine day for me, the slowest member of our group was about maxed out. We went down the Flume Slide the next day. I happen to love slide paths/ledges and steep hand over hand scrabbling (the challenge takes my mind off the torture, and your ratio of ascent/descent to distance traveled is huge when when the going is more vertical) HOWEVER . . one member of our threesome did spend the whole time sliding down the Flume slide on her butt. A long long long way to do it. If you are NOT comfortable trusting the friction of your boots (and strength of your knees)to hold you in place on long unbroken granite steep sections (like steep ramps) then the Flume Slide is tough to come down. Again, some people (me) love that stuff. My regret was having to hang back and be good company instead of being able to open up and fly.

It is a nice two day hike though!!!!! The narrown Franconia ridge, with the chimneys is great!”

“ok I'm on the band wagon. I have to admit I like that idea you got there MadRiver. It is cool for me because we will be covering some of the territory we'll be hitting in Sept. I believe it will help us determine travel time for then.”

“Since I haven't heard anything further, I was just curious if we have agreement on our overnighter in June?”

“I think we have a basic agreement about starting out in the Liberty/Flume/Lafayette area for the week end of the 16th and 17th.

I've been way busy and dealing with some medical problems and haven't had the energy to say too much.

I think the snow factor rules in favor of the day #1 plan as you laid it out. I think we can all agree on a place to assemble for Friday evening (dinner at a nearby restaurant??). Lots of us owuld like to stay on your property.
Mebbe we can also agree on an assembly place and time Saturday morning, a camp site for Saturday night.. and a Sunday route.

I think picking the weekend and the general idea of the first hike is all we need to do for now. I'll be happy if we start filling in details over the next few weeks.”

“Sounds good PedXing. My week long vacation starts June 8th so I will e-mail everyone directions to my property well before that.

There are a number of restaurants nearby that would accommodate various tastes in cuisine from basic Mexican to elegant Swiss. I doubt everyone would be arriving at the same time, so we might want to discuss the restaurant option at a later date when everyone has a better idea of arrival times. If all else fails, we can always have a bar-be-cue at my house.

There are two parking lots we would be using during our hike. I have to leave my car at the Liberty Spring Trailhead because I have to leave Sunday to drive back to Connecticut. The second parking lot would be the Lafayette Trailhead where the hike will begin. The two parking lots are only about a mile or two apart so car spotting will not be a problem.

I will be doing several day hikes and maybe one overnighter earlier in the week so I will have a better idea as to the conditions of the trails before our weekend jaunt so if we need to adjust our schedule we can discuss it on Friday night.”

“Kewl!

Mad: Sounds like the big question is how to combine the one day of hiking we have outlined with a second day.

I see 4 ways to do this:

1) Add the osseo trail and lincoln woods trail (heading into hancock campground and parking lot) onto the southern end of the hike. This is between 7 and 8 miles.

2) Add hiking to the norht end of the trail (maybe via the Gale river trail, the Garfield trail or the Noth Twin)

3) Add an Eastern component to the trail (Kinsman lonesome lake...) or drive to some place entirely different.

If we do #1 or #2 it might make sense to make the extension the first day of the trip... since these extensions would be easier).”

“To me, it seems that if you start from Lincoln Woods and hike to Liberty Spring Tentsite via Osseo on Saturday, and then hike to Lafayette and out the Old Bridle Path trail or continue to Garfield and then out either Garfield Trail or Gale River on Sunday you would avoid doing the ridge twice. I would still have to leave on Sunday so I would hike out via the Liberty Spring trail Sunday morning or if I start early enough I would hike out Falling Waters Trail. Since we are only 20 minutes from Franconia Notch, we can spot cars Friday evening thereby allowing us an early start on Saturday morning. Either way, I'm open to whatever people would like to do.”

“Mad River, Just a suggestion: This hike is going to need a leader, and it looks like the mantle is being laid upon you. Get a consensus of where everyone wants to hike, review the maps, and then lead brother. Don't worry about meeting everybody's complete expectations. We'll all be happy iffen there is a start point and an end point and plenty of woods, hills, overlooks, etc... in between. It's your neck of the woods, so show us some of the prettiest spots!! I, for one am looking forward to hiking with the gang, and right in the middle of God's country to boot.

Happy Trails”

“I'm definitely attending this one!

Perhaps a new thread should be started once all the details have been ironed out?”

“Mad, I hadn't thought of combining the north and south extensions, but it does look doable.

Day 1: Kankmagus @ Hancock Campground to Liberty Spring tentsite is about 7.5 miles with a lot of elevation gain.
Day : 2: Liberty Spring Tentsite to Garfield and Garfield trail to the road is just over 12 miles without much elevation gain. People could opt for shorter Sunday hikes by coming down directly from Mt. Lafayette, or Haystack along the way.

Does anyone know how the parking is for the Garfield trail?


BTW: Mad, I'd be glad to have you bee the designated leader/organizer. It seems that you know this stretch of the White Mountains better than any of us. I'm happy to give you input, or butt out as you see fit. The basic plan is great: a two day hike with Franconia Ridge as the centerpiece, and I trust you to decide how to nail down the details.”

“June will be here before we know it!”

“I can't really contribute further to the planning, since I am in the midst of a final-exams-week breakdown
%^0

...and then, of course, I am off to be stalked through the jungle, captured, tortured, and held as a slave in DR for a week. ;oP

IF I make it back from that trip, I'll be more decisive, but hopefully you guys will have all the details worked out by then. >:D”

“Ok, command decision time:

Since everyone will be traveling on Friday to NH, Friday night will be a time of getting acquainted and having a few drinks to celebrate our upcoming expedition complete with a ceremonial campfire. Chances are we will not be getting to bed at 9:00pm, but more along the lines of midnight. As a result, getting an early start on Saturday morning say around 6:00am isn't realistic. By the time we have breakfast, breakdown the tents and get everyone into a hiking mode, we might be looking at 8 or 9:00am. Telemark mentioned that the tent sites fill up fast so it is best to get there early. Keeping all this in mind here is what I propose.

Day 1. We start from the Lincoln Woods Trail (also known as the Wilderness Trail) off the Kancamagus Highway. There is a ranger station at the trailhead so we can park some cars overnight without any problem. We hike 1.4 miles up the Lincoln Woods Trail to the Osseo Trail. We follow the Osseo Trail to the summit of Mt Flume, which is approximately 4.1 miles. We would then hike to the Liberty Springs Tent site, which is only about an hour away from the summit of Flume. We would set up camp and the rest of the day we could hike back to the Ridge and explore north or south. This way, we have an easy hike in to the tent site and get our platforms before the throngs of campers descend on the ridge. We can spend the rest of the day on top of the ridge taking in the beauty of the Pemi wilderness.

Day 2. Once we break camp, we could head north along the ridge and people can then decided how far they want to hike. If a car or cars are left at the parking lot for the Falling Waters/Old Bridle Path trails you have the option of descending either from Little Haystack or Lafayette. If you are really ambitious, you can hike out over Garfield and out the Garfield Trail. There is a parking lot off of the Gale River Loop Road, which is off of Route US 3.

I do not know how many people are heading home on Sunday, so I didn't plan a Sunday night camping area. If you are staying Sunday night, Garfield has a tent site you can hike to from the ridge, or you can return to my land for the night. The choice is yours.

If anyone has a problem with this itinerary, please let me know so we can make some modifications.

P.S. PedXing, I wasn't sure how you were getting from the Hancock Camp Ground to Liberty. The only trail I see is the one I outlined, unless you were planning on hiking along the Kancamagus to the Lincoln woods trail.”

“If anyone is going to arrive late, you can have them go straight up the Liberty Springs trail, stake out a tent platform or two, then head along the ridge towards Flume.

Maybe I'll try to make an appearence.”

“Thanks Telemark:

All things considered, i.e age, ability, hangovers, I think this trek would be the best for all concerned. We get to the ridge early enough to secure platforms with little or no bloodshed. Once there, we can explore the ridge without worrying about where we will be sleeping. BTW, I will be up for the entire week, so if you want to do a car spotting hike let me know.”

“Mad River,

This trip is *very* tempting - though I haven't decided for sure yet.

You mentioned doing some day hiking during the week before the gang arrives on Friday. If I come, I may want to drive up (from here in PA) earlier that week also - in which case, would you mind if I: 1) Car-camp on your land? 2) Join you for at least one of your day hikes?

Also, for those who may be interested in staying in the mountains on Sunday night, I might be inclined toward that too. Heck, I can possibly even stay more than two nights, since I have lots of time off from work in June ...and July ...and August (the three best reasons for being a teacher!).

Now, I just gotta get me some maps ...Amy?”

“By the way... Are canines allowed? My dog Sparky is experienced and very well-behaved (AmyG and Buddur can attest to that).”

“If I make the trek from Wisconsin, I too will be seeking some other hikes in the area before or after. Still sorting my options, since this is my first summer off in too long (couldn't be a year with cheap gas, now could it?)”

“Mad River, good itenerary!!”

“M Silver, you are more than welcome. Aside from playing a few rounds of golf, and steam cleaning my carpets, I am free for the entire week so I plan on doing as much hiking as I can realistically fit in.

I personally like dogs, but I'm not sure if the caretaker at the Liberty Spring's tent site will be as accommodating. I know dogs are not allowed at the huts, so I will check to see if they are allowed at the tent sites.”

“Dogs are allowed. Around the campsite you probably should keep them leashed due to all the other people, food, and the water source.”

“So, this is a scoutin trip for the sept hike? Yo bear!”

“Yer plan is a sensible one Mr. Mad.”

“MadRiver,

Okay, thanks for your offer of hospitality. Once again, if I come (it's looking more probable!), I'l arrive during the week and be anticipating some day hiking - with you and/or solo.

--------------------------------------------------------
Telemark,

Thanks for the canine info. Sparky is very well-behaved. Nevertheless, if I decide to bring him along, I'll be monitoring him for proper etiquette.”

“I'm now a little iffy for the hike, but better than 50%/50%. I've got some significant surgery coming up soon and don't know how quickly I'll come back from that. My brain capacity has been dropping rapidly over the last few weeks, which is why I have retreated a bit in my planning involvement and am really glad to see how well Mad with advice from Telemark has come up with a really solid plan.”

“I hope that I speak for everyone when I say I hope you make it! If you don't we will surely see you is September
Think Recovery!”

“Thanks Sirpete!”

“since when is low brain capacity an excuse for anything?!? Just look around ya here.
%^P
LOL!

Don't enable him, Pete!! Ped, git yer arse to the Whites or else...
mooohahahahaaaaa

Jess kiddin' dahlin, smooch! Get well soon...physically, anyway. :o)”

“If we were doing our hike this weekend, this is what we would expect condition wise. click”

“i have read some of your postings and would like to add a few things that might help you out ???? all cars parked at any of these areas must have a parking permit on each vehicle, or there is a fine. the passes are good for daily , weekly, or yearly. i know yearly is $20. i am not sure on the others, do't remember. group sizes are supposed to be limited to 10. the trip that you planned starting from the wilderness trail is almost 8 miles to the tent platforms and is not exactly an easy one. especially if you are planning on getting there (tent platforms) before the throngs.i don't mean to rain on your parade but i have hiked around this area alot. i only live about 45 minutes from there. i have to hit the hay right now. if you need any assistance let me know. if you want me to butt out , let me know. good luck , don w.”

“I haven't hiked the Osseo trail to Mt Flume before, so I was gauging our hiking distance on the White Mountain Guide, which puts it at about 7 miles. If Don is correct, and I have no reason to doubt his word, we might be on the bubble time wise with respect to securing a platform. I was going to wait until we were closer to our June trip before hashing out any additional options. However, since he raised the issue, I might as well suggest that we hike up Mt Flume instead thereby getting to the platforms earlier than if we were to hike in from the Wilderness Trail. This new route would take in account any late starts we might encounter on Saturday morning.

Accounting to the White Mountain guide, this route should be about 5 or 6 miles from the parking areas to Liberty Spring campsite. It's been too long since I climbed Mt Flume to give you a better estimate of time and difficulty. If memory serves, it should be a fun (a slight note of sarcasm) morning. This new route gives us the additional advantage of parking our cars closer together than if we had some on the Kancamagus and some at Mt Lafayette parking area. Don is also correct that we will need parking passes. I already have a season pass and we can acquire any additional passes once we have an accurate head could. I doubt we will need to use all the cars, so some can remain on my land (I don't charge for parking). The rest of our itinerary will not be affected by this new change.


Just from the initial interest I doubt we will exceed 10 people, so we should fall well within the 10-person maximum that the WMNF allows for a group. If not, there are always a few bears lurking in the bushes that can help thin out the group.”

“Thanks for the tips, Don. It's nice to have some locals looking out for us.
:o)

I don't think that we need to be too concerned about the Liberty site - I am under the impression that there is an overflow site "further up the hill" that is actually a bit nicer (since you aren't packed in like sardines), although there is no water. Please correct me if I am wrong...”

“I don't believe there is an additional campsite up on Liberty other than the one I mentioned. My wife who climbed Liberty about two years ago doesn't recall one either. However, maybe Telemark or Don has more information. Besides, there are 12 platforms at Liberty, more than enough for our little group.”

“Actually, the parking area at the Lafayette Place campground (trailhead for Old Bridle Path and Falling Waters) doesn't need a parking pass. It's part of Franconia Notch State Park, and NH being NH, there is no fee. The parking areas at Lincoln Woods (Osseo Trail) definately requires a parking pass, I'm not sure about the Liberty Springs trailhead, I'll check on that one if you'd like. You can buy a pass at the ranger station at Lincoln Woods, either yearly for $20, or week-long for $5, or daily for $3.

You can do a loop from the Liberty Springs trailhead (near the Flume Visitors Center) by starting up the Liberty Springs trail, branching right on the Flume Slide Trail, hitting the summit of Flume, then over to Liberty.

The Flume Slide trail is a tough one, and is difficult with a full pack. It'll be wet and slippery. My choice, since I'm usually paranoid about getting a spot, would be to go straight up to the tent site, grab your spots, then go up to Liberty and over to Flume and back.

The overflow sites are not as comfortable, and if there are lots of people there that night can be more crowded than the platforms. I'd try for a real site if you can.”

“Thanks Telemark. I have a nasty feeling if this trip ever comes to fruition, we will decide on Saturday morning which trail to take. I would have suggested going to the campsite first; I just figured people wanted to have a few more miles under their belts before setting up camp. However, given the amount of trip reports posted on VFTT as of late, we might have more luck by securing our platforms first and then explore the ridge as you suggested. Once again, we are more than likely going to modify our trek at the campfire Friday night over a few drinks, if it ever comes to pass.”

“COOL”

“What up Sirpete”

“eh pal.. I see you only live right down the round from Matt. world just got smaller didn't it! Classes are finally over and I graduate on Saterday. I'm already gettin started on my new resume. Was up with you?”

“"we are more than likely going to modify our trek at the campfire Friday night over a few drinks, if it ever comes to pass."

LOL, I can just hear it now...speedy gonzales/sirpete says, "come on uthe guthes, we kin take on dat mountain! hic
Lets do the WHOLE Franconia range!
AmyG: "gigglegigglegiggle, pass me more of that lynchberg lemonade, would ya? Time to celebrate...we're climbing Mt. Washington tamarra!! gigglegiggle" >%D

Madriver: "oy vey, what have I gotten myself into, hiking with these drunken weirdos?"
=:0

Hey, update on Pedxing! I got a call from him and he's out of surgery and doing well. Should be back in the saddle in no time. I told him to get his lame ass outta da hosp and resume training immediately! He hung up on me.
sheesh.
Thome people are tho thenthitive...

Just wanted to let you all know. :o)”

“Pete
Congrats on the graduation! I know your ready to get outta school finally.
I just did my last 2 BPing trips for a good while. It's getting too dam hot to be one the trail. Time to Fish! Check out theFiery Gizzard report and the Cumberland Report. That's what I've been doing”

“Fear not AmyG, I've been known to hoist a few myself on occasion.”

“Whoa I ain't no speedy gonzales there AmyG. I will be lucky if I can keep my sorry @ss up to the likes of you! Heck when I was down in the Savage Gulf I was smoked going up them hills by WD and Naked Ape. Now theres a couple of mountain men. I'm just a mere flatlander with an over abundance of ambition.”

“I think you will find that I am about the same speed, sirpete. These ole knees ain't what they used to be. Also I have a hiking partner that is just starting out with a backpack that I bought her this year. Guess we'll eat their dust together.

While Iwas looking forward to meeting the gang, I was hoping to see more than their backside. :p”