What, no Peru debate?!?

“yeah. So?”

“hey fly, I'm a huge Neil Young fan, and that song seems SO familiar. But which one is it?? Just curious.”

“Took me half an hour and a walk around the building to figure it out myself! Had the tune but couldn't raise the words. Mumbled to myself, trying to hum it up! Its "Revolution Blues" (from IMHO one of his weaker efforts.)”

“Well, we live in a trailer at the edge of town;
You never see us 'cause we don't come around.
We got twenty five rifles just to keep the population down.
But we need you now, and that's why I'm hangin' 'round.
So you be good to me and I'll be good to you,
And in this land of conditions I'm not above suspicion;
I won't attack you, but I won't back you.

Well, it's so good to be here, asleep on your lawn.
Remember your guard dog? Well, I'm afraid that he's gone.
It was such a drag to hear him whining all night long, oo.
Yes, that was me with the doves, setting them free near the factory
Where you built your computer, love.
I hope you get the connection, 'cause I can't take the rejection;
I won't deceive you, I just don't believe you.

Well, I'm a barrel of laughs, with my carbide on;
I keep 'em hoppin', till my ammunition's gone.
But I'm still not happy, I feel like there's something wrong.
I got the revolution blues; I see bloody fountains,
Ten million dune buggies comin' down the mountains.
Well, I hear that Laurel Canyon is full of famous stars,
But I hate them worse than lepers and I'll kill them in their cars.

N. Young”

“Reminds me of the time I spent in Lima Peru.”

“Pedexing said it very well.
Mutt, your sweeping generalizations of religion are staggering. What do you base your comment on? When have I defended my church? I've been defending religion.

You are the perfect example of the closed-mindedness that you profess to hate so much. I'll admit quite freely that religion has hurt people; but check this out:

In reading the Sacramento Bee today, and just to make this point, I'm holding the Metro (local) section.
"Alleged beating probed by FBI"..."Jurors see girl's taped interview on kidnapping"..."Fugitive in Oregon..."...
...and I didn't get past page two.

None of these are religion related, but I realize this is a small demographic. It's just the local paper.

But it seems to me that there's just a feeew more problems in the world today than too much religion.

Heck, if I thought for a moment you were open minded, I'd argue that these people beating each other and kidnapping little girls could use a little of the moral guidance that most religions offer.

I suppose you disagree.”

“"But it seems to me that there's just a feeew more problems in the world today than too much religion."

Tell that to the people in (former) Yugoslavia.”

“hmm, rosey missed the point.”

“8D”

“Where Mutt disapoints me is where he takes a credible argument against a political policy, (the war on drugs), and turns it into his sounding board to denounce christianity. And...no compassion for the dead and injured? If you sound like you want to supplant religion with heartlessness, you will not reach many conscientious people, be they christians or not.”

“"of the moral guidance that most religions offer."

Read the whole post, roseymonster. I've never condoned or defended killing people in the name of "god."”

“Dunaden I thought the same. It takes a heart of ice to condone the killing of a child. You just have to remember who you're dealing with. I'm sure he doesn't *really* feel that way; it's just theatrics.”

“The people of the former Yugolslavia know that there are "a few more problems in the world today than too much religion." Religious intolerance and bigotry did not help, but Communism, ethnocentrism, and totalitarian aspirations Global and regional politics all played huge roles.

It was disturbing for me that Europe and America have had a history in the 20th century of acting as if the killing of non-christians in Europe (Jews and Moslems) was much less a threat to world order than the killing of Christians. But, neither Hitler, Tudjman (sp?) and his fellow Croat leaders, nor Milosevic and his fellow Serbian nationalists were motivated by religiosity.”

“The trouble with the "moral" guidance that most religions offer is that it is under pain of sone sort.
That pain could be of the mythical kind such as being cast into a lake of fire or the real thing; beating, amputation, execution, etc.

I think moral teaching can be done without threats of violence and fear of the boogyman.”

“Or guilt.

Tommy, I see your point.”

“I couldn't find it.
Who has condoned the killing of a child?”

“Mutt, Where do you meet these Christians you describe. I have met a lot of Christians, but I never met one similiar to the description you give.

One minute they are sheep and the next minute they are overpowering fanatics with murder in their eyes and swords of intolerance slashing about.

Do you know anyone like that or is this a label you stamp on people so you won't have to consider their views?”

“Stirring the compost heap.”

“i thought he was scrubbing the toilet bowl.”

“Try the Church of The Gooey Death and The Discount House of Worship in Del Rio Texas.
Rev Billy Sol Hargis, pastor”

“Tom its sad when the majority of your posts on this thread are basically you saying yea what he said to Mutts posts.You have become a parody of yourself. Listening to you and Mutt mentally masturbate one another on this thread is pathetic!”

“I don't hear nuthin'!!!”

“No, Tom T made a good point there. Moral guidance can and should be imparted without threats, violence, or, as roseymonster said, guilt.

A leader leads from the front, and sets a good example. Problem is, the prisons are full of people who know right from wrong, and deliberatly chose to do wrong. And that's the nature of it: the law tells us not to do evil, religion tells us why not to do evil.

(Taking a simplistic view:)do good, go to heaven. Do bad, go to hell. How is this different from college?
Do good; get a good job (reward) do bad, live on the street (punishment)

Reward and punishment is part of every day life. Telling your boss to pump off will get you sacked. Yet people come down on religion for doing the same thing. Huh.”

“Nigal: 8P

Dunadan & Joy: I have compassion for the dead baby. The mother was a complete f*cking moron for putting her kid into danger like that. But she was missionary scum which is of course the calling of idiots, so there you go. I don't believe the mother should have died because she was a brainwashed drone of her church, but you reap what you sew in life. Oh, I also have compassion for the native peruvians who now have fear of god and the afterlife due to the christian missionary trash who've corrupted their minds and their culture.

Bacpac: You're the one person on this BBS not worth responding to.

flyguy & lounge lizard: someone has to vocally oppose ignorance and evil, and I'm just the loudmouth jerk to do it.

Official scorekeeper: I like that insult! Pretty offensive. Succinct yet potent. Or at least it would be if I weren't impervious to attack. You're doing better, Nigal...er, I mean scorekeeper.

Tommy: Yes, I'm sure all the minority youth rotting in prison because they were caught in possession of weed or acid or even coke or heroin made the choice to be EVIL. You moron. Take a couple of classes in social problems and discover the structural reasons disadvantaged people engage in behavior the christian lawmakers deem wrong. The mistake conservatives make is to assume that there is one morality and every deviation from that morality is a personal choice to embrace evil.

pedXing: quit playing both sides of the field. Only a psychologist would be so devious. By the way, your profession is going down the drain. Psychologists are nothing more than than parasites feeding off the discoveries of the real scientists who study chemical reactions in the brain. Besides, anyone with any intelligence can see that social forces external to and coercive of the individual explain more variance in the human condition than do psychological factors. Gah. If you don't have your Ph.D. and you're not in academia, then you're counseling fat middle-aged divorced women, which just kills your credibility. [disclaimer: I only think I read you're a psychologist].

OK kiddies, that's enough for now. Sometimes I wish I didn't have to work so hard, and I could join in your low-brow discussions more often. Oh I bet you all would love that!

Peace, Mutt”

“I figured you would take the easy way out, Mutt. You always do.”

“why are there no pictures of mutt? send one to phil, man! (i'm assuming that you are male.)”

“Perhaps condone was a poor choice of word. Maybe relish would be a better choice.”

“Oh, Mutt...I LOVE IT!!!

I cite examples of people in trouble with the law for beatings and kidnappings, saying they chose to do wrong, and you DEFEND DRUG USERS.

Oh, and then call me a moron.

Oh, and then say they are disadvantaged. To whom do you refer, by the way? All people in jail, or just the druggies?

Yes, Mutt, those horrible, aweful Christian lawmakers deem beatings and kidnappings wrong. Those JERKS! Who are they to say those are CRIMES! They should be free to beat and kidnap whomever they choose! Anyone who tramples on their freedoms is a facist!

Please, Mutt, please please please...ignore the point entirely again, and then insult my intelligence. Bekuz evryone thinks u r smart when u doo that.”

“Don't forget the Jewish lawmakers! That Lieberman is a regular Nazi.”

“geeze, I don't think I'm winning friends or influencing people here. What a shame.

Here's an example of christian sh!t-headedness that touched my life recently:

A woman I know lives with her fiance. They've known each other for years and are the loves of each other's lives, uh huh. So she gets pregnant. Miscarries the baby. Family on both sides tell her the reason she lost her baby was that god was punishing her for not being married. She got pregnant again, and again the family told her she HAS to get married or she'll be responsible for another miscarriage because god will punish her again. So out of fear and guilt, she elopes with her fiance. Now her family is most upset and calling the marriage illigitimate because somehow it's not a marriage in the eyes of the Lard. So they're telling her she's going to miscarry because the Lard will punish her again.

Oh, and her church is telling her the exact same thing her family is, too.

Being one of the only sane, rational people in her life, I suggested she go to a different doctor and see what the medical reason was she had a miscarriage. She did, and it turns out that her original doctor didn't notice she had some type of infection, which would have most likely caused the miscarriage. She's getting it taken care of now, and the doctor is saying there's no reason she would miscarry now.

So the poor woman is being persecuted by her brainwashed, ignorant christian family for something her body did on its own, naturally.

This is just a typical example of everyday cruelty inflicted by christian schmucks. I would gladly beat the cr*p out of her family and her minister/priest/pastor/whosinthef*ckever. Christianity is ALL about control and power over people.”

“Hey Ped,
Have there been any recent escapes from the looney bin? If so, please alert them to Mutt.”

“Hey Mutt:

I'm not sure I would blame it so much on religion as I would that there seems to be a mental deficiency in your friend's family.”

“Christians are counseled to give 'witness' to their faith - meaning that when others see how the believer is living, they'll become interested in why and hopefully will be drawn to the faith.

Some Christians give terrible witness. They are after all only human and as such are works in progress.

I don't think that Mutt's dementia has drawn too many to be more like him.”

“rosey: the church was 100% behind the family. I agree with you that christianity is a mental deficiency.

violin: gives the classic christian cop-out. They're the bad christians. They're not following the true words of Jebus.

The family is very active in the church, and the church supports their superstitious cruelty. This is the ugly face of christianity.”

“Jhn 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Or were you there to hear otherwise?”