Questions from a Newbie…

“Hello everyone. I was hoping to take a few minutes of your time to get some input from you all.

First a little background (if you don?t care and want to skip to the question, please jump to the next paragraph). I am 30 years old and married with 2 children (ages 3 ½ and 1 ½). I live on the outskirts of Tampa Florida. I started camping when I was in 4th grade (webelows) and continued from there (boy scouts). In high school I was a T.A. for Outdoor Education (biking, rock climbing, X-country skiing, etc.). Through college and after I would take the occasional camping trip with friends (some canoeing, biking, climbing or spelunking - but mostly just camping and hanging out). My wife used to camp with her father as a girl, but has not done much since. She is, however, anxious to get back outdoors. My eldest son has also begun to express an interest in camping. I am very much interested in getting the family involved in backpacking and (primitive) camping. I am not really interested in backing the van up to a camp spot and unloading everything including the kitchen sink.

I have a few questions that I would love to get everyone?s help:

1.) I have to replace ALL of my gear. I need to find a tent for the family that will be large enough for all of us but also sturdy enough (it will have to last) and light enough to take hiking. My wife and I will also need backpacks. Does anyone have any recommendations on brand? Size? Features (internal or external frame)? Price is DEFINITELY a consideration!

2.) Is my eldest son (3 ½) old enough to start camping with me? Any tips? Things to consider? Things to look out for? Types of places to go?

Thanks in advance for your help.”

“Tents...get one for you and your wife, and another for the kids.

Backpacks...nothing beats getting out there and trying them on! Most outfitter stores should have personnel that'll fit the pack to your torso (find a pack that'll fit you).

I know this isn't much info, but it should help somewhat!”

“Bill Jackson's in St. Pete has everything you need as far as tents and packs go, but they ain't cheap. Maybe go there to look around and talk to the people, try on packs, and look for bargains elsewhere. They've got high end stuff at high end prices. US 19. Pinellas Park, technically.”

“Kelty packs have been around forever and seem to be priced economically. I have never owned one so I can't speak personally of them. They may be a good starting point. Buddurs idea of 2 two person tents is a good one. It would give you more options, especially if you were to go without all four of you. I don't know what a "good" starting age is, though I believe it would depend on the child and their abilities (some children are more coordinated/stronger than others at early ages). Do some day hikes of varying lengths to see how they hold up.”

“IMHO, kids that small enjoy the time to explore. A hike may seem to them like a forced march. You want them to enjoy the experience of being outdoors, yet to still have the time to chase butterflies, tadpoles, and to look at the underside of leaves. Kids so young have so much to learn and don't need to cover alot of ground to do it. Car camping may, for starters, be the way to go, with ranger-led programs, improved trails, water and facilities.”

“Eureka! dome tents are a very good choice. I have never gotten wet in a Eureka and they are reasonabley priced. For packs I suggest you head down to Target and check out the Eddie Bauer packs. I'm very impressed with them and they are $99 a piece.

If you shop on line try

www.sierratradingpost.com

www.campmor.com

and go for the best buys. It's never too early to get a kid out there but let's face it, you're gonna be basiclly camping with a little walking in between...shop acordingly! You will not have to have bomb-proof, to the top of the world gear. Buy cheap until you know it's something your family will be doing for years to come, then buy slowly and buy at discount. Rule #1: Never, and I mean NEVER, pay full price!! 8)

Go get 'em Tiger and let us know how it goes!”

“His kids are 3.5 and 1.5 years old I don't think having a seperate tent for the kids is very intelligent.
Eureka makes great tents for a good price, as for packs you'll need something to carry a lot of the load and I think Kelty makes a combo child carrier and backpack big enough to put overnight gear in.”

“I have also used both of the online companies that Nigal recommends and never had a problem with either of them.”

“Yeah REPTILES, they are young to be alone. I was thinkingmore of an adult and child in each tent at this point.”

“Thanks for all the great advise everyone. My eldest and I are doing a "test" camp-out tonight in the back yard in his very small (6 X 5 - I am over 6' tall) tent. He is getting very excited. :)

As a side note, I do not believe that the 1 ½ year old will be heading out to camp with us for a couple years yet. If he does, it will probably be the ?back of the van? type camping that I mentioned.

I have come across what appears to be a great deal on a tent but I am weary that it might be ?too good.? I have found a Great Basin (which I am having trouble finding info on) - 14 X 12 ? 3 season dome tent for only $99.00. Does anyone know anything about these tents? Is this as good of a deal as it sounds?”

“I have also used both of the online companies that Nigal recommends and never had a problem with either of them.

ditto what ken said. (Should we hold out for an endorsement contract?)”

“When bargin tent buying always look for the full coverage fly and even then buy a can of the spray water proofing to spray on it. Seam seal the seams with a homemade mix of silicone ($1.98) and paint thinner ($?) to the consistancy of honey and aplied with a small brush.”

“Thats a big dome! A partitian to make two rooms may come in handy. wink, wink.”

“Pewter, Check out Gear Finder.

You can compare lots of tents with lots of features. Keep in mind that what ever you select you will have to carry. That lesson is usually learned on the trail the hard way, so pay attention to the weight.”

“Howdy from Gainesville, PB. Don Gleason also does a nice job on discounting tents. They have older models that are very good bargains. Read Backpacker magazine for recomendations. Go to any and all outdoor stores near you. Try on equipment, make your choices, then try to hold out until you can find that stuff on sale. Northern Mountain Supply is having a great sale on packs. Heck, you can't find a pack at Kmart for $99. Check out the other thread on pack opinions. Externals sit further away from your back, stick out more on the sides, and let your back breath better than internals. This makes them good for warmer temps and groomed trails. Internals hug your back, don't catch brush, and become more a part of your center of gravity. This makes them better for areas of heavy brush and areas where you do more scrambling such as boulder fields and steep snow crossings. Try them on and load them with weight. The gear you're going to bring works best but this is often a catch 22 as you buy the pack first and then see what gear you can fit.

Everyone has different requirements. You should see what works for you. If you can take your time, do it. Rent gear, borrow gear, or just keep buying more gear. Ah, that's the ticket. More gear!”

“Hi PB!

I like my Kelty Vortex 4 for the family. It's heavy at 9 pounds but if your wife carries the fly, it will help with the load.

The kids are young and won't want to hike too far but I have found there are lots of places where you only have to go a mile or two in to find a nice site. You'll encounter more day hikers but it gives the kids the feel of being in the wilderness. You can day hike from there.

Have a great time and give us a know how it goes!”

“Give us a report OR let us know how it goes... sheesh! :o)”

“One word:
Target

Two more words:
Eddie Baur

A three person tent with a vestibule should accomodate the family and gear. Target (Eddie Baur) should be able to satisfy. Packs, mattresses too.

Sports Authority will have cheap filters, stoves, boots, etc...

I still use the pack (CampTrails "Catskills"), filter (Sweetwater), and mattress that I bought at Sports Auth. several years ago.

Break A Foot!”

“It has been my experience that children that young need a lot of stuff. My oldest is almost 7 now, his first camping trip was at 1 month old. Very fun time. His first backpacking trip was at 5 years of age when he was totally out of diapers (day & night). Even more fun!

Of course I've been lucky. From the first time I took my wife camping she loved it, on the other hand she has only went backpacking with me 3 or 4 time in the ten years we've been married. She seems to insist showers are a necessary part of camping, oh well, at least we always have fun.

If it has been awhile since you and your wife have camped, start out with a great campground that has plenty to do, hiking, fishing and swimming. After some time you'll acquire the necessary gear to branch out into backpacking again.

And by all means keep it fun!”

“I've also had good luck with Eureka!, and they're pretty well priced.

As far as the "everything" goes, if you don't have a dump truck full of money, or even if you do, try renting at first. Packs and bags cost a ton, and you have to know what your needs are. How cold it gets where you camp, how much weight you're going to need for the little ones.

I just hiked a 9 mile loop with a 3 1/2 year old not too long ago...she did it all but 1.5 mi. on her own. Yeah, your kid can do it, but I wouldn't give them anything but a very small pack. Maybe a mini-fanny pack.

'Sides, hiking with a kid is like taking a dog. They become absorbed in the little things we often overlook. These little things are important, IMHO.”

“LL Bean makes some good family tents too.”

“Pewter,

I took my kids on their first dayhikes as soon as they could walk well, and their first overnighters with packs happened when they were four. The sooner you get them acclimated to the trail, the sooner they will be fun to take 'out there'.

For the first overnighter, I'd recommend one kid, one adult, a two person "team". That way, the adult can concentrate on the one kid's needs. Keep in mind that the first trip's sole purpose is for the KID to have fun. Go at his pace. Stop and play wherever he wants to, but don't get so distracted that you lose sight of the need to progress to the camp destination. Make the destination CLOSE and the trail EASY. One to two miles should be plenty. At the kid's pace, that will take you about 3 hours (including all the stops to look under rocks and ogle bugs).

Make the kid carry something, because everyone carries (rule 1 of backpacking). A 4 yr old will carry about 3 pounds with no trouble. You carry the rest, but that's OK because it's only 1 mile and you've got hours to cover the distance, remember? And there will be LOTS of stops along the way.

If you do decide to take them both for that first trip, two tents is the way to go, one kid/one parent in each. That way, if one kid is having a bad night, it doesn't automatically create a bad night for the other.

Develop acquaintances who already have some backpacking skills. When you're ready to take the kids, get one or two of them to come along and assist. Spread the weight, help with the chores, this will allow you to focus more on what the kid needs and less on the mundane details of accomplishing camp chores. It might also help if you take a trip or two yourself and develop (or take the rust off of) your own packing and camping skills a little bit.

Until the kid tells you otherwise, their favorite teddy bear is one of the ten essentials.

Gear wise, start asking co-workers, friends, etc., and I'll bet you run across people with gear in closets and garages. Borrow often, rent if you can't borrow, repeat as necessary until you know more about exactly what kind of gear you want. If you start out buying stuff, you'll spend more on gear you won't use very much before you want it replaced. No one gets it right the first time.... at least
I didn't.

I envy you. My best hiking memories come from those first trips for my kids....”

“Good advice there, from strider. I like the two tent idea, as well. You can put them right beside each other, if you want to. When I backpack with my father (now 70), I put one tent on each side of my pack to ballance the load.

You'll be wanting the separate quarters for the kids in a couple of years anyway.

They're never too young to start. Take advantage of the opportunity to rediscover the little things close to the ground, that you've been walking right past for years. Enjoy”

“I'm another newbie, and I've been shopping for four, but I decided to start with the "back the van up and unload" at a campsite. Based on everyone's advice at this site, I got two tents rather than one, both 60 sq feet and eight lbs., one the Eureka Tetragon 8 and the Kelty V-4. They are very tight for four but three fit great. The Kelty is more weatherproof with full fly and two vestibules/doors. It is on sale at Campmor.com for $199. Love the Tetragon but in Fl you may want more ventilation. My old sleeping bags are too heavy for backpacking. I'll take everyone camping out of the van, pay off all the small gear and tents I bought, and spend the year hunting bargains on light bags and packs. Maybe post an ad at work. But car camping doesn't mean you bring everything. You still have to load and unload, and the smaller and lighter, the better.
The internet has a lot of info on campgrounds, private and state parks. Some even post a map identifying each individual site. I spent a lot of summers in central Florida fishing in the lakes, growing up. You have the advantage, for now, of not having to plan around the school schedules.
My 8 and 6 year old hike 3.5 miles in 3 hours (wearing small school packs with food, water and extra pants/t-shirt) because they want to climb rocks, play in the creek, look for snakes and turtles. They love playing more than hiking. The 6 year old always stumbles and rips her knees. Bring bandaids galore and don't overplan the miles. You are smart to start the kids early. I waited too long because I always had to carry the youngest. My husband is amused at my interest in camping. Backpacking is not in his plans, but if he doesn't change, I can go with the kids. The 8 year old is an artist and loves to sketch on our hikes, or take pictures and sketch from them later.
I like the quiet, no TV, traffic, etc.”

“Thanks for everyone?s help!

Based on the advise I got here (somewhat ;-) ) I went out Sat. and bought that 12 x 14 hex dome tent w/ locker. The quality isn?t great, but it should work well for my needs. I am in the process of sealing the seams and waterproofing it (as much as possible.

I figure that with the kids as young as they are we will be easing (back) into the camping/backpacking scene. I weighed the tent and its packed weight came to 18 pounds (which I thought was pretty good for the size). The poles seem like they are about ½ of that weight so the load could be split between my wife and I if needed. Even if I have to carry it alone, I don?t see us going all that far until the kids are a bit older. In a few years I am planning to replace the one big tent with a couple smaller tents. If the tent I just bought lasts me for 3 or 4 years that is all I am really expecting of it.

Again, I wanted to thank everyone for his or her advice.”

“I can't disagree with anything said above, but I'll add some to it. Make it enjoyable for the wife, so she will like repeating the experience. You should do the cooking and cleanup so she does not feel stuck with the kitchen chores (men are better at camp cooking anyway). Having really good food goes a long way toward the happiness of all. We have found that a shower bag is a very nice touch. We heat up a pot of boiling water, add some cold, and have a shower before bedtime. It feels great to be clean in a sleeping bag after a sweaty day on the trail.


For gear: dome tents are great, but <10 pounds is a must. My REI dome tent fit that bill, and they do mail order sales where they are pretty inexpensive. Old kelty frame packs can be found at used sporting goods stores here in Idaho, for $50, and they are the best. A good and light sleeping bag is a nice thing to invest in when you can afford it. Depends on where you hike, but a super cold weather bag plus a summer bag, that zip together, is a pretty flexible combination.

Car and tent camping is a pretty good option until the kids get older. You can get kids and a lot of gear in a canoe, canoe a mile from the launch point, and you are in the wilderness. Once in the canoe, the kids can sleep, fish, lean back on the gear, and they can't run away.

Good luck and have fun!!”

“I don't have any advice here but I just wanted to congradulate everyone for not starting a flame war yet.”

“Pewter, Make sure you get a big enough pack for all your gear. Your wife might need a pack designed for a narrow frame. I've heard Osprey is good for that, but costly. I think it cost me about $90 for my Kelty "redwing" 3yrs ago. They come in all different sizes.

If you figure out what packs you want, maybe you could find them used ones.”

“If you take a short trip, you can take the littlest one.
I took a family of four (dad, mom, a boy 10 and a little girl 3 1/2) out for 22 days last summer.
The llamas carried the majority of the heavy stuff, but the dad carried a pack with a 6,000 CI capacity for personal stuff and daily necessities, and the mom carried the little girl in a Kelty baby pack.
Now, this is if your wife or you can carry decent sized packs, or want to.
You, the dad, carries camping for a two-nighter, and mom carries the little person (or vice-versa).”

“A couple of thoughts - My husband began taking his kids camping when they were about six weeks old, so at 6 months and 3 years, you're okay. Your tent is way too heavy, and I would bet that it is pretty complicated to set up too. Get one that is smaller, lighter and easy to put up. Practice before you go.
Bring a tarp too. If the weather turns bad, (and it will) you can still cook outside and play games under cover, but you won't be confined as much. Pick up Cindy Ross' book on Children and the Outdoors - she has a lot of experience (she took her kids on the CT and the CDT every summer for five years starting when they were still in diapers.) She talks about the fact that children's attention span is different from adults. They can spend endless hours playing with a box, but walking for an hour at a time is extremely boring and needs to be broken up with play time and rest time and lots of snacks.”

“Mel, that is amazing! First that a family would consider something like that with a 3 1/2 year old for 22! days and secondly that you would agree to do it! Whoa. Any good stories from the trip?”