Campfires II

“Last month, I started a thread asking everyone if they make campfires and as I expected most hikers said they make fires on a regular basis. Last weekend, I hiked part of the Loyalsock Trail in PA. and I haven't been to some of the campsites I used to stay at for 10 years. I was greatly disappointed to see that most of them have been burnt out by fire builders. Places that were nice forest duff to set up my tent were now fire rings or scattered ashes. Hillsides were tramped and eroded from wood gatherers. Fire rings were filled with half burned trash and sited in areas they should not be. It's really a practice that has to be controlled. We live in an era of dwindling forests and there's just too many of us to keep impacting areas with fires. A saw or ax should have no place in today's wilderness. The dead snag you burn for wood may be a home for some types of wildlife. If you need a fire to stay warm then your unprepared for the conditions. Next trip, do the land and the next hiker to come a favor and don't make a fire. It's just not necessary to do this kind of damage.”

“OK”

“Had my favorite local hiking area burn up two Memorial Days back. Ilegal fire was the cause. The area allows fires in certain sites at only certain times of the season. Some people just PISS me off!!”

“Campfires are a historical part of wilderness adventures. I do agree that people should limit them and make them less frequent. Only, I don't think that campfires should stop all together.”

“I agree Thin. LNT is some of the best stuff to hit wilderness in a while. But many a mountain man is turning in his grave having witnessed the sterilization of wilderness. It's sad that we even have so many people in the wild that limiting fires is necessary.”

“Rich B,

Seems that camping/backpacking is becoming victimized by its ever-increasing popularity. The Loyalscok is a heavily-used trail, so its not surprising that many of the tent sites are worn-down, and the surrounding forest is stripped clean of usable firewood. This is becoming - or already is - a problem on many popular trails. I try to stay away from heavily-used sites, but sometimes can't avoid them.

Most of the time I don't make campfires, but sometimes I do. For me, whether or not to have one depends on several things: how much the site's been used, time of year, where I go, when I get there, who I?m with, etc. On those nights when I feel that a campfire would be in order, I always challenge myself to keep the flames as low as possible - without the fire going out. For me, a small campfire provides a nicer ambiance than a larger one. It?s also much more sensible stewardship. If ppl feel compelled to satisfy any left-over primordial Neanderthal longings, that?s okay with me - just be sensible about it and keep it low, please.

And that?s my campfire philosophy.

BTW, I hike the Loyalsock myself - though only for day hikes. You live in PA?

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PS: "some of the campsites I used to stay at for 10 years." <<< Wow! that's a long time to camp in one place. No wonder the firewood's all used up! ;-)”

“It seems that the problem Rich describes has more to do with overcrowding than fires. Why don't all of you just stay home?”

“There is a lot of re-education that needs to happen, with backpackers and even girl scout organizations. We are camping next week in NY at a girl scout camp and we are forbidden to use camp stoves, only campfires to cook with. With the drought we've been having, this seems like a really bad idea.”

“MSilver, Yes I live in Northeast PA. I wanted to say that I haven't been out to the Loyalsock in roughly 10 years.
Bacpac, the problem isn't necessarily overcrowding. The problem is that some people are impacting the land more than others and it only takes a few of them to make a crowd. They're acting like lonely pioneers in an empty mountain range and things just aren't that way anymore. It's possible to camp at a spot and LNT by not making a fire. I do it all the time and I don't like staying in used campsites. Some idiots camped next to us and had a huge fire when the trails are now posted no fires due to dry conditions. They're lucky they didn't start a forest fire. It's not that any one fire is bad it's just that so many people are making so many of them and there's no question that the damage on the Loyalsock is the result of fire builders.”

“Are you sure the damage to the Loyalsock isn't due to mountain bikers? ;)

Sorry.

Hey, the fire builders, which used to include me, are just like everything else. There's good and bad. Good and bad trail dogs, bikers, drinkers, you name it. How can you say crowding isn't the problem? There were fires before there were massive crowds, and you seemed to imply the Loyalsock was fine before.”

“Most of the time, I don?t make a fire, for 2 reasons. One, its not exactly leave no trace and the second, the ashes that where left from the fire should be carried out, or at lest scattered along the trail. To me that?s just to much work.

-Wrath of the Hiker”

“Got a call today - no fires at the girl scout camp allowed now due to dry conditions. So if you hear about a forest fire in NY next wknd, it won't be us.”

“Tommy, I realize that without hikers you won't have fires, however trail usage continues to rise while wildlands decrease so if the increased users adopt a go light on the land policy and not make fires the increased usage won't have as many detrimental effects that we see now. The ashes scattered about didn't fall from the sky. There is no excuse for multiple fire rings in one campsite. Soon the whole area become ashes. Without the fire there would be much less impact. You can clearly see where hikers have dragged dead snags into the campsites and gouged the land and ripped branches from standing trees all to be sawed up in camp. As long as we still use the land it won't be possible to have absolutely no impact, but we can reduce it by not making fires. The perfect camp is found not made. I realize too that it's possible to build a fire responsibly and make its traces disappear. The problem is that nobody does it. I think hikers want to do the right thing and it may be that we need to educate them.”

“Why do people spread the ashes all around, would that not create a larger scar on the land? Just curious. Would it not be better to have the problem(the ugliness of ashes) more localized in one area(fire pit) then spread all over the trail and camp ground area. I much rather see the ashes and charred embers buried were they were burnt then see them laying on the surface all over.”

“Stoves use fossil fuels and are made from strip mined materials. Campfires recycle native material. Camp areas without a lot of down woody material are more fire safe than areas thick with slash.

Having said that....
Removing all vegetative material from a site has negative soil impacts. Improperly extinguished campfires are a major cause of forest fires. Ashes and coals dumped in streams wreak havoc on aquatic life. This occurs even when the ashes are left in the fire ring, but the ring is in a sand bar next to the creek (spring runoff covers the fire ring).
And how much time and effort is spent gathering wood every night, when you can turn a valve and light a match?

Final Answer?
Personal choice. Just consider the pluses and minuses then make your choice.”

“Thanks, RichB, Briar and Gordon. Good thoughts to consider. I like fire, but I hate the effects of too many people. Ashes are spread because the chemistry is good for plants. But that is only true if you only do it a couple of times a year. The people spreading them are forgetting that aspect. And I hadn't even thought about runoff affecting the creeks.”

“i don't have a fire, unless i'm with someone who does.



i just hate it when people burn their trash. how damned lazy do you have to be to not pack it out. it just disgusts me.”

“I hate when they attempt to burn things that don't burn and it just looks ugly. I saw on the news last night that Pine Creek Valley in Central PA. is one fire right now from a campfire. 700 acres consumed and still burning. Inexcusable.”

“how heavy is a damned ziplock baggie? it's pathetic.”