Another dog incident!?!

“Why can't dog owners follow the rules? I had a dog approach me on the trail today well ahead of 'Master'. Nice looking golden retriever. As we neared each other it bared its teeth and I bared mine. The dog came in and I gave it a solid blow to the nose with my hiking stick. I was swinging away and connected a couple more times. 'Master' was yelling and screaming and running up the trail and by this time the dog having no more of bacpac.

We were in a State Park with obvious leash signs. It was a nasty scene and 'Master' was pissed at me and I was pissed at the whole situation. I thought for a minute that 'Master' was going to test my stick, but he wasn't that stupid.

Follow the rules, leash your beasts or better yet, leave them at home.”

“As a dog owner, I am firmly on your side bacpac. It is the owner's responsibility to control the animal and who is to blame for any REASONABLE defensive actions taken against the animal. Shooting a dog on sight is not reasonable, but your blows with a hiking stick when the dog makes a move on you seems to be.

Even the sweetest dogs can get very aggressive with strangers. Our little sheltie is a darling, but she goes on guard when neighbors are in their yards on the other side of the fence. While she isn't a biter, she could scare someone, particularly a child, who doesn't know how to respond.

As for the leash rule, well that owner should be glad you didn't file charges. In some jurisdictions, the owner might be liable for assault.”

“Instigation usually leads to confrontation! I'll bet you were the first who showed his teeth!

Ya must be one sick lookin' & actin' motha...fer a Golden to go off on ya!”

“LMMFAO!!!!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!!
I can just picture bacpac and this dog going at it Tooth & Nail!!!!! Teeth all showin and sh!t!!!!
Now that's FUNNY!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!”

“Bacpac, in the future, allow the dog to sniff your @ss first. THEN you can sniff his. Some dogs arent like arkansas sheep.”

“Well bacpac has a stick up his @ss and he didn't want to show it to his new b!tch.

Pun intended.”

“Is this a continuation of the 'Smells like Children" thread?”

“Bacpac, you are the man. I think I'd probably do the same, and file charges if I could.

I have been "approached" by several dogs on the trail, unleashed, and the owners making no effort to leash them in sight of others. I have often been forced to use my sticks as a fence for me an my dawg. Suzy doesn't really want to "play" with other dogs.

Every time, it's "I don't understand that, my dog never does that". I used to deliver papers and work in housing projects. Do you know how many times I've met up with a dog that doesn't bite???

I tell you people like THOSE dog owners really p*** me off. I don't appreciate getting attacked (me or my dawg) and then they make my dawg unwelcome in so many areas.

Well, I feel a little better now. Just reread this post, sorry to vent so much, but I believe what I wrote.”

“I just saw a ugly side to my dog last night. The neighbor was over with his year old Golden Ret. They also brought a knuckle bone to chew on. Bad mistake!!!! My dog caught a wiff of that and then made her plans for the steal. Jezebel turned to her primordail canine instincts I beleive. Her hair was standing on end, bearing all her pearlly whites, she even had the drool that comes dripping from the mouth. She looked like a lone coyote making its move on a protected carcass. She forcefully separated the other dog and bone. After a brief moment with the bone Jezebel really lade into Cody for the last time. That was the ugliest scene. The bone was removed and the dogs parted for awhile.
Bad scene!!!”

“I have had similar situations, UK. PatchyG does not really care for other dogs much, but naturally they wanna sniff her and say whassup (woof). I have had to be defensive a few more times than I cared to, including physically harming a dog that was attacking mine (I ended up getting bit too! grrrr).

Buddur makes a good point though, Bacpac...a golden retriever?!?! It takes a lot to provoke that sort of breed, generally. It seems that you probably could have diffused the situation without aggression on either side.
Whatever the case, you were certainly within your right to do what you did...I would have just handled it in a kinder gentler fashion, but that's me.
;oP
'course, iffin I ever come across an unleashed bacpac on the trail, I'll prolly beat him with a stick. heh heh heh”

“Without passing any judgement, it is clear that backpackers with heavy packs on and who are sometimes stuck in one spot on the trail by trees, bushes, etc., feel very intimidated by big dogs bounding toward them on the trail. You have no idea if it is a friendly dog or not. Horses are not happy about loose dogs either.

I think some people are more inclined to let dogs approach. I usually freeze and put my hand out for them to smell. By the time they get to me they are wagging their tail and friendly 99% of the time. I feel like I have enough time to pull my hand away from an unfriendly dog.

We have a mandatory leash law now in our local wilderness because of bad incidences. Some people are greatly intimidated by dogs who appear out of control. Dogs get lost very easy in the woods chasing things and make good coyote food.

My assessment after 4 years of trail patrol:

1/3 of dogs on the trail are good trail dogs
1/3 of dogs are OK as long as they are on a leash
1/3 of dogs had no business on the trail (they are too wild, untrained, out of shape, pads are too soft on their feet, etc.)”

“I saw some coyote the other day...wierd lookin' dogs, they are!”

“Budder, I have seen several coyotes, but none of them attacked me. I am sure the entire incident was my fault since I was off of my leash as well.”

“just a few days ago, a dog came up in MY yard, and started his digging and sh!ttin. i nailed him in the head with a roll of duct tape that i had in my hand. knocked that bastard all the way around AND rolled him over. luckily, he limped home. this is the third time it's happened and i'd probably just beat the damned thing with a stick next time.

i have seen too many GOOD dogs in recent years, to put up with sh!t like this. keep the damned things on a leash if they can't stay where they're supposed to be.

sorry, if i seem so bitter, but i was attacked by a german shepperd when i was a kid. my dad only stopped beating that dog because he thought it was almost dead.

if a dog ever attacks MY child, my wife, or me (again), there will be no maybe, no second chances. i won't stop until it would be impossible to even SAVE the dog's life.

hate me, if you want, but NO dog's life will EVER be worth as much as my family's health or lives.”

“by the way, sarabelle is an absolute doll. she has been elevated above "dogness", in my eyes.”

“I gotta put in my vote for Sarabelle also. She the best tral dog I've ever met.”

“The breed of the dog does not matter. To suggest that it does shows why this continues to be a problem.

"Screw the law, my dog and I are better than the dogs and people they wrote these rules for."

This dog could have been a Tasmanian Devil and if it were on a leash everything would be cool.”

“I agree that the breed does not matter. I had a Golden Retriever about 10 years ago that was very aggressive. This is a popular breed and with inbreeding and all some may be aggressive. I have to say though that there are some very good dogs out there.”

“See my commandment on the "backpacker relligion" thread. -God”

“I was at a car pull in campsite once. There were trails connecting the campsites. A dog came into my campsite and bared his teeth. I was furious at the owner for leaving a dog like to walking on it's own.

The dog could have bitten someone, and it also left the dog open to harm by others. I don't mind a friendly dog passing through camp, but not everyone likes dogs. Some people are scared of them too.

I tracked the dog back to it's campsite, and told the owner the dog beared his teeth at me. She couldn't believe he was like that, but I assured her he was.”

“You know, a thread dissing dogs is always going to be as controversial as one about religion or guns.

I like dogs.
As a rule.
I have a lot of friends who are dogs.

But I have a grudge against the OWNERS of many dogs.

I've spoken here before about my encounters with dogs on trails in our area (central Sierras) that are available to ignorant and lame-assed tourist dayhikers and their unleashed dogs, or ignorant lame-assed backpackers and their unleashed dogs.

The dayhiking tourists can't hike back much more than four miles, one-way, with Fido off the leash.
They get too tired and sweaty in their Ban-lon shirts, and over-grown, city hair coats.

Four miles from the trailhead when I'm coming back in from a pack trip, is about where I start running into these off-the leash,
(bacpac My Dear, I do not count you in these numbers),
"wonderfully obedient" animals who have never seen a llama, and think it's time to start trying to chew a leg off one; And the Yahoo's who own them are never within 100 yards.

This is a great lot of fun when you have a sting of four tied together on a narrow, blind switchback, with a 50 foot drop on the downhill side.

Or there's the backpackers in the parts of our local backcountry where dogs ARE allowed (most of the hiking trails I try to travel on are in National Parks where dogs AREN'T allowed), who have Rover under "complete control", and Rover is running through the brush chasing deer and rabbits, and also harrassing and trying to jump on my llamas who are minding their own business eating lunch out in a meadow.

Thank de Good Lawd Larry has one Hell of a Cow Kick, and can cold cock a German Shepard, and send him flying ten feet in the air.
He's had to do this while I, when the Idiot Owner finally arrived on the scene, threatened to sue and kick the crap out of him AND his dog.

The only defense llamas have against dogs are their feet.
Their feet ain't much.

Now, I also live in a real rural area.
All my neighbors have dogs.
And none of the dogs are leashed, and they all wander loose around the neighborhood (only about 15 houses on a 150 yard long section of two lane road).

Until I made myself PERFECTLY CLEAR in a letter to the newspaper about how much I DETESTED, AND DISPISED dogs, and the OWNERS of dogs, who thought themselves above reproach on the subject of these charming and well-behaved animals who came into my yard after dark, or before dawn to dine on my garbage, in the can on my porch, 100 feet from the street, The Dogs roamed about unmolested.

These Friends of Man (with Assh0le Owners), who are/were too lazy to get their asses out of bed in the morning to walk the dog, or off the couch in the evening to do the same, allowed the dogs to go in and drop a load not in THEIR yard, but in the yards of their neighbors.

An incredibly civilized calling card to the people who live close to you.

I advised, in the local paper, that I knew which pile belonged to which dog, and that each morning when I dicovered a steaming "gift" on my lawn, within the boundries of my fence line, said "gift" would find it's way onto my shovel, and said "gift" would then find itself located smeared, and dripping down the front window of the owner in question.

Fewer dogs found their way into my yard after this advisement.

Until....

Now, we get this ignorant female who moves into the house up on the hill behind us.

And, she too allows her cow dog to run free.

Ah, dogs are free spirits and SHOULD be allowed to follow their canine nature..
Run free little doggie, until you get out into the street at midnight to become road pizza.

So, my husband and I have to go out of town for a week.

We get home and hear from a neighbor that the new doggie has been down in MY yard, in MY corral, chasing around MY llamas.

Animal Control is a nice agent for delivering messages to the effect:

I find your dog in my yard or EVER in my corral again, I WILL shoot your dog.

My .02.”

“I have yet to read a defensive dog owner on this thread.
Cat got your mouse?”

“I agree that breed doesn't matter (notice my use of the word "generally" after that statement). A bad dog (owner) is a bad dog (owner).

Dunadan, I don't think you are likely to hear a defensive dog owner on this thread...although I don't agree with his method of handling the situation, bacpac was right. (did I just say that?)
It is not for me to decide what the right thing is for someone else...if a person feels threatened, they have a right to defend themselves.

I agree that Sarabelle (Gojo) is great...kudos also to Buddur(and Tom) and Sparky(and msilver). Of course, nobody can beat PatchyG...both literally and figuratively.

^..^”

“so, you always keep patchy on a leash?”

“Although I haven't had any bad encounters with dogs on the trail, I have noticed however that they get freaked when they see me wearing gaiters and carrying trekking poles.”

“B!tch b!tch b!tch

Everything I've read so far indicates these dogs that you guys encounter sooooooooo often haven't been obedience trained and taught right from wrong, like kids (see Smells Like Children thread. And who do you blame it on...the kids (dogs) or the parents (dog owners)?

How often do you encounter bad dogs on the trail?...every hike, one in ten, once every 2 years?

When a dog appears aggressive, it's too easy to do the same and make the situation worse (eh bacpac?). What ever happened to trying to be friendly and make an effort to make a bad situation better...of course that's too frickin' hard to do. And it's much funner to see the dog get even more pissed. Unfortunately, it CAN be done (i know this is hard to believe), but if one were to show themselves not to be a threat, dogs will recnt their aggressive stance.

Obedience training teaches you to understand a dog and how to get through to it and convey ideas. If some of you on the trail would actually make an effort to "make friends" with the dogs you encounter, I'll bet you'd find that it's easier than you think. And you yourself would "diffuse a situation" you once felt could only be fought with more fire. You fight fire with water, guys...not more fire!

Mel, you do what you gotta do, I'd do the same. But to those who take a dog showing aggression at face value, and don't make the effort to show the dog you mean no harm, you're just fooling yourself by thinking the dog has no gentle side and are yourself a part of the problem!

Someone has to be the defensive dog owner!”

“Poor bakpak -
You sure seem to have a lot of bad encounters with dogs.

...makes me wonder.


Maybe you should get a dog of your own. Sarabelle is always the focus of dogs that we meet on the trail - thay act as if I don't even exist.




Me and and my black lad, Claudell, had an encounter with a white shepard and a pit bull in the late 80's... Battle Royal!

We were in the woods near where I lived when we (Claudell, actually) were attacked. It was over reeeeel quick.

Funny, I never saw those dogs again.

There was a pack of strays that hung out in the area, too. They started chasing my truck (Claudell, actually) near an intersection. To their surprise, I stopped the truck and bounced out of the cab - Claudell bounced out of the bed. The strays took off through the woods, and Claudell got a bead on the largest one. C.W. walked him down in just a few seconds, while I was busy kicking another one around a little. It sounded like those poor dogs were being mauled by beasr - they were caught totally by surprise, and did little to defend themselves.

I saw the pack a few more times, but they never chased my truck again. Hmmm, imagine that.”

“When I go into the wilderness, in AND out, about 20 to 30 times a summer, with a string of llamas behind me, I run into agressive dogs at LEAST half the time.

On sections of trail close to busy trailheads with lots of dayhikers, I may run into a half dozen dogs in less than an hour. Mostly unleashed.

It is RARE for the llamas and I to meet dogs who do not bristle, bark, snarl, advance, and bare their teeth at this strange animal encounter.

Even obedience trained dogs can, and may, react this way.

Most people say....
Oh, my dog has NEVER done this sort of thing before!

All the more reason for the leash.

Dogs are still dogs.
They see something strange, and possibly threatening (for all they know), and if they're not physically restrained, they're probably going to go for it.

I've had to use my ski pole to wack more than a few dogs while we wait in the trail for Mommy and Daddy to arrive.”

“Gojo, you?re one tough motha. I am afraid of dogs and they know it. I wish people would keep them leashed like they?re supposed to. Once when I was a kid, I came upon a pack of strays in the woods. I sat in a dang tree with my knife in my hand for half the day before I went back to camp.”

“just fight them like you would anyone or anything else. a swift blow to the head. a couple of blows to the ribs. gentle ben has a few good tips, too.”

“The nother time in the woods a nice lady sayed "aww - look at that happy nice doggy." and she sticked her hand by my nose and I BITED OFF HER FEENGERS! Then, her daddy sayed "Do not bite off no buddys feengers" and I tacked him and BITED OFF HIS HED! Then, I got off ther pakpaks and ate ALL THER FOOD and gave it to rock rats to. Then, a ranger was on a hors and sayed "you are goin to the poleece!" so I BITED OFF THE HORS LEG! Then, I ATE THE HORS BUTT HINEY HOLE! And the ranger runned off in the woods and I sneeked byhind him and BITED OFF HIS BELLY! and made a fire to cook his guts and ate them. Then, a grizzy bare sayed "give me those man guts" and I gived him the man guts and RUNNED AWAY! BOL!

My daddy and me did not go ther no more.”

“It is obvious Buddur and gojo don't appreciate the problem. I encounter multiple dog problems every year. I don't normally have to bash their skulls in.

To suggest that I should take time to make friends with these dogs is absurd. I am going east and they are going west. I will never see them again nor them I.

Should I stop walking and coochie coo? Carry dog bisquits? Start petting a stange dog? Why hell no. The dog owner should keep his mongrel well away from strangers.

Until the dog owners accept the responsibility for their dog and stop expecting the rest of the world to make an exception for them the problem will continue.”

“plus...

i thought bacpac would mention this, in response to buddur's post... why the hell should anyone have to TRY to calm an ill-tempered dog? or someone else's kid, for that matter?

if i wanted to put up with the crap that comes from those situations, i would hike with a kid (which i will, in the future) or a dog, but i don't.”

“When I was a leetle kid, I did not kno much about a leach, so I only wore my leach sometimes but not much. Now tho, I ware my leach ever day cept when we make a tent cuz then I do not ware one.”

“The nother dog.... Oh never mind!”

“thank you, sara, for reminding me...

there have been times when i WAS willing to put up with what comes from those situations. almost all of the dogs were bad (except sara stinkybutt, who is happy-nice and all that stuff) and, actually, the kid i hiked with was extraordinarily well behaved. lonestar's six year old son was an excellent trail companion. that pack was so big on him, and he was so quiet and intent, i thought i was hiking with yoda or something. what a kid!

but, when i go out, without a dog or kid, i am not out there to deal with yours.

is this enough bitchin' for one day? whew! i'm beat!”

“Noone said you have to "stop walking and Coochie coo" the dog...words man, words...and a friendly demeanor...that's all it takes to win a dog over...and you get to keep walking.

Of course, it ain't as much fun as to intimidate and antagonize a dog to get it even more ill-tempered!”

“Ya just can't follow the rules can you Buddur? Everyone has to make exceptions for you.”

“yeah, just keep the dog on a leash, and there won't be any problems.”

“Old habits die hard...don't they?”

“It is cruelty to animals. Be kind to the dogs. I am talking about the owners action not bacpak?s. It is a cruel act for the owner of any pet to not have it under control 100% of the time. If a dog is hit by a car it is the fault of the owner for letting it out into the street. If a dog is hit by bacpak?s stick, or mine, it is the fault of the owner. I have been bite by dogs that ?do not bite?, according to the owner. You may trust your dog, but do not expect people that have never seen the dog before to do the same. It these situations it is the dog that approaches the person not the other way around. Dogs should have enough of a fear of strangers to stay away from people they do not know. Bacpak was doing some neglected training. That dog owner should have been thanking him.

In Idaho we eat dogs. The Lewis & Clark Corp of Discovery bought dogs from the Indians for food. They are great trail food because they carry themselves. There is nothing like a dog roasted over an open fire after a long day on the trail. I love dogs.”

“So Radagast, when you have a child and she has gas and screams for an hour at 11pm while you're camping it'll be okay but you'll cut no one else's kid any slack? Or are you refering mainly to behavior problems? Clarify man!”

“hmm, did you read my second-to last post?”

“and keep the babies out of movie theaters, too, folks.”

“well, I'm sure Jen will enjoy staying home with the baby while you're out backpacking or are you giving it up for a few years?”

“shh! keep it down back there!

i will stay home with the baby, until we can go places together.

even now, she does not has a problem staying home, though, while i hike.

with the career path that she has planned, i MIGHT even be pulling a mr. mom! whoo-hoo!”

“We'll see LL. How are you going to guarantee that the little bugger will be quiet all the time when they're 4 or 7 or 9?”

“"sadly, jen can no longer drink beer."

Are you going to be a Daddy Lounge Lizard?! Tell us if congratulations are in order!!!!”

“how can you guarantee anything?

but i will do my best to keep from violating anyone else's experiences. if i need to tailgate, away from others, so be it. if i need to leave with my child, so be it.

put it this way, you're barking up the wrong tree, babe.”

“and no, she is ill, and can not drink, anymore. definately not celebrating material.”