 |
Welcome to thebackpacker.com create account login |
 |
Should we drill in Aanwr?View MessagesRE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Mine too rad. Vonnegut is sooo deep. A friend of mine saw him sitting on his front stoop in NYC looking all thoughtful and stuff. I woulda run up and annoyed him.” 4:26:25 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Government subsidies to the oil industry: 1) Government collects tax $$$ 2) Government sends refund to taxpayer 3) Taxpayer gives it to Shell or Exxon (This is exactly what GWB said we should do with our "tax reduction" in response to high energy prices) In the name of efficiency, wouldn't it be better to just SKIP the taxpayer step?” 4:42:18 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Two stories appeared in the papers this week that no one seems to have really picked up on. The first is a relaxation of sanctions against Iraq. We now will allow all goods except military items to flow freely. This will ultimately help increase oil supply from Iraq. There was also an editorial in many papers from Brent Scrowcroft (daddy Bush's old Gulf War chum) arguing that the U.S. not renew the Libya-Iran sanctions act, which is up for renewal in August. If Scowcroft is saying this, you can bet the current Bush administration is thinking it. Again, this will ultimately help increase oil supply from Iran. These stories got buried by the official energy policy plan, but I think they may be more important. Why conserve when we can buy oil from the enemy? BTW, want to solve this problem? Everyone go out and buy a used Festiva. I drove one for years. Great cars and I drove from Detroit to mid-Illinois on less than an $8 tank of gas. The answers already exist.” 5:46:16 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “ That's what you say.(not directed at anyone in particular, it's my new universal refutation)” 6:17:47 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “I seen ANWR written and spoken both ways. Why should the gov. fund 85 mpg engine? Drill it and be done with it. Tax gas guzzlers! 6:27:20 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? 6:32:06 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Hiking Bear- ..."you wouldn't be able to have this debate.....if it wasn't for capitalism..." You got it wrong pal. You wouldn't be able to have capitalism if it wasn't for freedom. Capitalism does not equal freedom. It is not a political system. It is highly likely that though the oil companies are many they are in collusion to restrict supply to drive up the prices. If Americans cut back on their comsumption of fuel....drop the demand....the prices would likely drop as well. Oh yeah, AANWR does not belong to the Alaskans, it belongs to ALL American citizens. Bush says, "Americans shouldn't have to do with less." FAT CHANCE!!!” 11:17:37 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “I am personally against George W. Bush. I am going to appologize now for the long speech here. The fact that a "Republican" hand puppet was elected to office is beyond me. Another thing that I don't understand is that at election time the states such as Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Alaska, etc. were the ones that voted "Republican." To me, if America wants to save its treasured Backcountry Lands, then why is a "Hand Puppet," being controlled by big business. The people that seem to be complaining thoughout the U.S. about G.W.B. and oil drilling in the Pac. North West are the people from the Pac. North West. I saw an article in the Chicago Tribune a couple months back, which I wish I had saved, that said that G.W.B. wants to allow a rail road to be built into Denali National Park. Also, in this article G.W.B wants to allow people to build homes in National Parks, according to the writer, G.W.B. says that this type of thing will not effect the natural enviroment. It later went on to talk about the drilling in Alaska. I don not get how a bear or moose,or what everseeing some fat ass laying in a hammock in his "back Yard" smoking a cig. and drinking a margarita. I think that would be a little more destubing to the natural enviroment than the "Republicans" think.” 11:47:50 PM 5/18/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “This is a wake up call. The environmentalists have been extremely effective in demonizing big business and energy companies, but we as consumers have thumbed our noses at their conservation message. SUV's and Trucks are the vehicle of choice. That is not the energy producer's fault. Energy producers have been unable to develop new refineries and mining interests, because environmentalist anti-business campaign has been so successful. "Not in my back yard" is so prevalent it has become an acronym. We still want an unlimited supply of high octane. GW has done nothing to stifle his energy buddies greed, because it serves no purpose. His buddies are his buddies and we weren't going to get the message any other way. We have and will continue to see a culture change towards energy awareness and policies, but it won't be because of the environmentalist's success it will be because of their failure. It takes a realistic approach and a set of brass balls to effect change. We need more refineries and power plants. The liberals attacked GWB as an anti environmental, because Houston is the most polluted city in the US. Houston also refines 80% of all gasoline sold in America. They have a monopoly on plastic and chemical production as well. There is a big picture. Take a minute and look at it.” 12:26:41 AM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “If it were just up to the "market", (capitalism), there would only be one oil company in the world right now. It's name would be Standard. Read your history. Government, (re: We the people), stepped in and busted up the monopoly. Now, look at all of the mergers taking place. Is it time to preempt the inevitable? Another question...Where does the oil from Prudhoe Bay end up? Is 100% of it going to American consumers, or is it being shipped to Asia in large quantities? Less dependence on foreign oil would mean that we have to keep ALL oil drilled within our borders in the US. Is that the case, presently? Capitalism is not god and the oil companies, whether there are 200 or 2 of them are not our saviors.” 1:18:59 AM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Amen to that.” 4:26:55 AM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “We probably need more power plants, but lets build them all in the suburbs. My home county - a working-class kind of area that needs jobs - already has two coal burners and a nuke plant on the shore of Lake Erie. From the largest coal burner, a trail of smoke heads out to sea for a hundred plus miles. And the entire flow of my hometown river is processed through the plant. The river essentially flows backwards and stops all fish from heading up stream. Now, plans are in the works to build a new natural gas plant about 20 miles upstream. This, if built, would process the entire flow of the river again. Of course, there are no power plants in Ann Arbor, Bloomfield Hills, the Pointes or (sorry Hyper) Livonia. People live Most people live far enough from these generators that they don't have to think about them. Let's build them close to where people live in the interests of fairness and as a reminder of the costs. Oh, and after a few coal plants are built nearby, I bet nuclear power would start to look really good.” 8:54:49 AM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “I just hope all of you so called enviromentalists know that the electricity used to power your computer and the internet uses coal and oil to power it. Have a nice day!” 11:50:10 AM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Well that should change too. Try Neuclear!” 12:04:53 PM 5/19/01 Hey Hiking Bear “Right on!! Approximately 10% of all electricty used in the U.S. powers computers and related equipment. So with every post on the subject the pressure to drill increases.” 2:36:19 PM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Hiking Bear.... more and more plants now use Natural Gas.” 3:10:29 PM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “and Natural Gas, thanks griz.” 3:50:04 PM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “Tom, yea decreasing the demand would lower the price, but the demand would have to stay that low for the price to remain. The only way to alter the price of a good is to alter the supply. In all acuality, the price would probably stay the same and the companies owuld just produce less. So you would be still stuck paying the same price, and as soon as everybody got sick of not using their cars, the price would go up because all of a sudden demand skyrocketed. By intorducing more oil into the system, there is more of a supply, so scarcity drops and prices follow. MR=MC that can't be changed.” 6:16:02 PM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “The AANWR issue doesn't really have anything to do with our current energy shortage. The ability to provide our own natural resources is a National Security issue. We need to be able to function when the inevitable nuclear warhead goes off in the Persian Gulf.” 6:42:13 PM 5/19/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “INEVITABLE???????” 1:35:46 AM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “I expect it to happen in my lifetime, yes.” 1:40:46 AM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “There are not "many" oil companies by any stretch of the imagination. Royal Dutch Shell, BP/Amoco, and Exxon/Mobil basically control the petroleum products market in the US. There are no "American" oil companies, they are all multinationals. The high gas prices are not caused by the crude supply, but by a lack of refinery and pipeline capacity. This shortage is a result of the low gas prices we had for most of the 80s and 90s, since the oil companies didn't want to invest in refineries and pipelines because the return on investment would have been too low. For electricity, we really need to upgrade the distribution system far more than we need more generation. The ammount of power lost in "the grid" is astounding. We could increase supply without burning more fuel, and reduce the problems from plants being down for maintenance. We do need a "comprehensive energy policy", but we aren't getting one. We do need some increased exploration and generation, but we really need to upgrade the petroleum, natural gas, and electrical distribution systems. We also need to invest far more in high efficiency, zero emission electricity generation, and conservation than the lip-service we are getting from the current administration.” 12:33:51 PM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “I think the lip service was performed in the previous administration. Our current energy situation was created by a lack of performance in the previous administration.” 1:06:42 PM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “deathdude- You're saying that the prices would probably stay the same if the demand dropped. Then you are saying that the prices will drop if the supply increases and there are no shortages. If we can lower the demand I believe that would be much the same as eliminating the "shortage". The "easy" way out for US is to give up nothing and let BIG OIL continue to ravage our behinds and the environment. BIG OIL is not "American" but multi-national. Dunadan- 1:15:06 PM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “That's exactly what I'm saying Tom. Since the oil companies have almost total price control, why would they lower the price after the shortage is over. They would stilll be pumping out the same amount, it's just that not the same amount of people need it, and if you remember my main point, I said that even if prices do drop, they will just rise back again when demand increases. YOu can't boycott forever. The AAnwr oil will all go to America because it will br hooked into the Trans Alaskan pipeline. Prudhoe bay oil is sent out on tankers where it is sold. Also, even though the oil is sold, the United states still benifets from it in terms of incomming cash. We don't just give the stuff away.” 1:32:01 PM 5/20/01 RE: Should we drill in Aanwr? “"We" just don't give the stuff away? Of course WE (the government who controls the National Refuge...ie, OUR'S) give it away to BIG OIL who take the profits and WE see little if any of that. The incoming cash isn't exactly going to us. Its going to the multi-nationals who are not on OUR side. If Prudhoe petrol is not transported by the Trans Alaska Pipeline, then what is? I believe the petrol is shipped by pipeline to the tankers in ice-free dockage. I thought THAT is why the pipeline was built in the '70s. I wasn't talking about boycotting forever or for any length of time. Well, I guess I'll have to give up on my electricity-guzzling vacuum tube powered amplification devices.” 1:46:30 PM 5/20/01
Post a MessageIn order to post a response to this thread you must first be logged in. If you do not already have an account, you must first create a new account.
|
SearchReady to Buy Gear?Sponsored Links
Great Outdoor SitesLinks |
