Look What The Energy "Crisis" is Causing

“Its amazing how little has changed in many years.
Republicans(20th century) have always had their core constituency.
That would be the business class and their sycophants.
Alone this group is far from a majority because they do not represent the public good.
They have for years relied upon smearing their opponents, ie, liberal/progressive politicians.
These smears are usually the same old crap such as but not limited to;
labelling opponents as communists/socialists
questioning morality
accusations of treason
questioning loyalty and patriotism.

These tactics have from time to time been more or less fruitful.
Over the years there seem to be a fair number of people, educated or not, who go for such baiting.

Liberal/progressive politics saved this country from economic depression, fascist rot, and communism in the last century.
These lessons are lost on a "new" crop of right-wing morons.”

“You know something else that I see republicans doing that I hate! They campaign to Christians like they will save America and establish Christianity, or steer America towards it. That is such an abuse of the word Christian. If you look at the true meaning of the scryptures, it supports a type of Communism. Not the "Survival of the Fittest", Capitolism and the bottomline profiteering of big business, and Greed. All this lines up with Republicans. Yet Republicans pull the Christian Card and ban abortion, or fund faith based organizations. All to lead Christians to believe that the Republican Party is the "ritchous" vote.

I rember back durring the election that at Church someone joked, "So who is Voting for Al Gore" I raised my hand. So many people stoped talking to me after that. What a way to devide the Church!

EVIL EVIL EVIL

It's all a battle, and the enemy decieves.”

“Proud to live in a country where I know that there are people like you, ThinAir. We may not agree on how to make a better society, but I like listening to your reasoned ideas. Except the part about redistributing the wealth. Talk about your robber barrons. I believe that I am entitled to do with my wealth as I see fit. Why would anyone assume that they are entiled to the fruits of my labor? That does make someone a bad person. It's called robbery.

Kleetn you monster. You are the personification of evil and you have hurt my politically correct feelings. Wait, that's right, I'm not politically correct because I'm not a liberal.”

“I'm not preechin redistribution of wealth extremly, just a little, and not as so much that it will allow people to have no reason to be productive. Wellfare definately should be worked on, but not tossed out.”

“Just think, I'm gonna be teaching this stuff to kids in about 3 years. MOOOOHHAHAHAHAH”

“arclite-
You sound like a politically correct conservative....all the "right" responses.

Thin Air-
Its a shame how the righty's have rotted the minds of good Christian folks.

What "entitles" the upper class to the fruits of the labors of those in the middle and lower classes?
"But its our money".
It had to come from somewhere.
A more equitable distribution of wealth would help insure the domestic tranquility.”

“arclite, you can't use logic to persuade liberals. Liberals are motivated by feelings and emotions, not reason and logic.”

“Tom, you are definitly "unencumbered by the thought process."

How can you keep your hands in other people's pockets and type at the same time?”

“Where is your logic. Persuade me bacpac. So far all you have done is label. Anyone can do that.”

“Welth rides on the back of labor. Laborers deserve to have an equal, if not higher share of welth.”

“Where have you been? Go to the start of this thread.”

“Why is that?”

“Sorry, I was only referring to that last post. It really gets you nowhere in a discussion.”

“Why is what?”

“Why should labor have a greater share of the welth (sic)?”

“If we were a fair, just, and civilized society anyone who belonged to any political party would be drug into the street and flogged to death.”

“You are just pissed, cause I picked you in the death pool. Get hold of those emotions!”

“Because labor is the work that brings the progress and profit. Without it there would be neither.”

“Arclite, glad to see you posting again!

C'mere and gimme a beeeg smooch ---> (_|_)”

“What about the risk? Risk should be rewarded. Doesn't a business deserve compensation for developing a structured enterprise?”

“Thank you ThinAir for proving my point, you emotional windbag.

hehehe”

“Duh, I'm not against that. I just believe that laborers deserve better than they currently have. There needs to be stricter enforcement of laws already in place.

Here in Fresno CA we have a problem with growers who do not pay Hispanic labor the required minimum wage through loop holes. That just aint right! The Government could do a lot to correct the problems.”

“Now your just labeling again. Can't argue anything without resorting to name calling shows your lack of a firm hold on your beliefs. Please try to think”

“Surely you can do better than that TA. What about the Unions in Chicago that require a Vendor at the Convention Hall to pay an electrician to plug a laptop charger into a 110 volt wall socket?

This is not logical, but it is facutal.”

“while i am extremely conservative, both sides of this bickering make me ill.

every time that i feel like posting, i wonder if i'm posting, just to lash out against the "other side". then i think that it might be better to not bang my head against the wall because it will not move. at least not here.”

“You are more fun when you are drinking than you are the day after.

Knock back a few coldies and get back into the fray!”

“all that i had was one corona with my barbeque, last night.

last saturday, i had a few pitchers of guinness, though. hmm....”

“Barbeque? I thought it was called "grillin' out" on the East Coast.

I hope that wasn't a GAS grill...there's an energy crisis, ya know!”

“No shortage of hot air, though.”

“no, i barbequed a spotted owl over some old growth hardwood chips.

yumblilicious!”

“What about Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream then bacpac. Up until a few years ago, the highest paid employee couldn't be paid more than 7 times the lowest paid employee. B&J's is very environmental conscious, they give a huge amount of their profits to charities, it was started by a couple of Vermont hippie liberals, and guess what?
It now ships it's product internationally and is very successful!
There is no "I" in team and the best way to build a successful business is with teamwork.”

“bacpac-
What about those unions?
Those folks have a labor contract.
That's a kind of a business deal.
The workers(or what ever ya want to call them) are not exactly draggin' down six figures. If they are lucky they are getting by fairly comfortably.

What about those commodities brokers who don't really add any value to the product they "handle"?
Those jokers are raking in a hell of a lot more and making all of our lives more expensive.
People like that have positioned themselves nicely and don't really "work".
You might be surprised how hard the poor work and for how little.

And then you might thank your lucky stars for what you have and then vote yourself a nice tax cut.
Good for me tough sh!t for them.”

“Yep Reptiles, what a monumental contribution to society. Maybe not up there with the light bulb, calculus, the the discovery of gravity, or the theory of relativity but it certainly is something that collectivists can look up to and be proud.

It might be called "grillin' out" in the NorthEast, kleetn, but the South OWNS barbeque (Now THAT'S a controversial post!).

You big hunk-a-burnin' love, kleetn. Hey, we'd better keep this quiet. The others might find out.”

“Whew, crunch crunch crunch....... can of worms now opened.

I am a business owner. As a matter of fact, I own a .com company, so I'm sure that many of you hate me more so than you did before. I started my company with an idea, and worked harder than anybody I know. I have employees to support through our company, and taxes, yes my liberal freinds, taxes out the a$$ to pay on every dollar our company makes. So, don't tell me that more of my hard earned money nees to go back into the mix so everyone can have it. I am sorry. And if you think I am some callous a$$, think again. I am nowhere close to being rich, yet I donate $$ to local charities, and donate my time to Big Brothers as well as other programs. The point is, I get to make the damed decision where MY money goes, the money I worked for, not Tom "Lie to the World" Dashle, or Trent "Get Yourself Some Religion" Lott. I have the say. Now maybe you folks will know a little bit more on where my perspecive on things comes from.”

“Oh my God.

It's Bill Gates!!!


Don't confuse political differences with hate my friend.”

“Hey, good for you Mr Bear.
For such a smart guy who "works so hard" you sure like to talk trash about other people.

Why do you assume that "liberals" or any one else will hate you?

When the government has less power the power goes into the hands of the people with the most influence(money).
And those people don't always do right by their fellow citizens.
Not all people with money are so selfish and paranoid and I'M NOT SAYING OR ASSUMING YOU, Mr(or Ms) Bear, ARE SELFISH......maybe a bit paranoid and assuming about people who don't agree with your perspective.

You do sound like one who regurgitates the bullsh!t propaganda about liberal/progressive politics.
Does working harder than anyone you know elevate you to god-like status?
Does your vote count any more than mine?
Well maybe in Florida!”

“I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation the world for the next four years.
George Carlin”

“McCarthy? McCarthy made accusations that would have gotten him sued for slander if he had said them anywhere else but the Senate floor. He ruined peoples lives because they thought they were protected by the Constitution and had free speech.
Now watch the chain and see how dangerous headline seeking can be?McCarthy labeled people in the State Dept. as Communist Sympathizers because they had studied about Southeast Asia. Government service no longer holding a future these people left. Then Ike, Kennedy, Johnson, and even Nixon didn't have any knowledgeable advisers when they wanted to stop Communism in Vietnam. Thus no one could understand how those ungrateful people could turn their backs on the benefits of Colonialism for the horrors of Communism. Especially after we turned down Ho Chi Min's request for help to keep the French from coming back after he had pushed the Japanese out of his country during W.W.II. So you see we could have stopped the Vietnam war before it started if only we had had commie pinko hippy fags to listen to.
But, hey McCarthy was right???!!!???”

“McCarthy was an ass. So was Stalin.”

“Lenin and McCarthy. My favorite songwriting team.”

“uh That's Mr. Bear to you buddy, what did you think a woman could start her own business!*

*Now calm down, that was just a bad bit of sarcastic humor. Take a deep breath, relax, let that throbbing vein in your forehead pulse down, it was just a joke! Girls are just as good as boys, there, I said it!”

“What about those brokers Tom?

What about brokers who fail? Risk is a valuable commodity. Very few people are willing to risk their security. Those that risk and succeed get rewarded. Those that risk and fail pay a heavy price.

Those that never take a risk whine about the rich bastards who got rich for doing nothing.”

“Arclite my boy. How are you going to learn if you don?t listen to your elders? You didn?t look up ?Robber Baron? did you?
Shall we take this point by point?

You say it is government regulation that causes all the problems. I ask you why there are regulations in the 1st place. Could it be because of business excess? Did businesses pollute in the name of progress? Made unsafe products for profit? Sell below cost to drive competition out of the market? Do you think the government listened to the rabble? Or did they pay attention to the smaller business? that demanded a fair fight? Please read some history. For example, after the transcontinental railroad was completed (at public expense) the Southern Pacific put in a branch line to southern California. The growers that wanted to ship their produce to the eastern markets (the only way to get it there) had to show their books to the railroad. The cost of the harvest was subtracted, leaving a reserve to plant next years crop, and a profit. That profit then was exactly equal to the freight charges everytime. Now that?s what I call a reward for innovation!

You ask why government is in energy production. Government is not in the production business. Government is involved because business wanted it to be. No company wanted to make the capital investment necessary without monopoly protections. With those protections came regulation. Usually regulation the business wanted in the 1st place. For example when the utilities were deregulated in California there was no price ceiling but there was a price floor (by regulation could not go lower than X). Do I hear a different tune now?

You mentioned Works Progress Administration (please capitalize). Here are just a few bullet points for you to research: The Depression. 30% unemployment. Hoovervilles.

You accuse Liberals of emotion and rhetoric. I hear: ?I?m paying too many taxes!? ?Welfare mothers are stealing my money!? ?Liberals are to blame!?. Where is the emotion? Where is the rhetoric?

Liberal philosophy seeks to make slaves. How many times have you been ?Laid off?, ?Downsized?, ?Rightsized? or some other euphemism in the name of profit? If a company has too many employees, who hired them? Did he get fired? Who made the decisions that didn?t keep up with a changing market? Did he get fired? Employees should be assets of a company not liabilities. The ?managers? that make these mistakes do not suffer the consequences of their actions. That sounds a lot more like the Feudalism instead of slavery. Slaves have to be fed.

There are government programs you would prefer not to support. Can I opt out of supporting the military / Industrial Complex? And still enjoy the protection of a strong defense? I don?t want to pay for the Interstate highway system, but I like to drive on it. If you don?t want to pay for social programs, just think of what the crime rate would be without them. Yes, ?the Rich? pay much more in taxes, but they also reap many more benefits. How could they fly away if tax dollars hadn?t built the airports? How could they get their shipments if tax dollars hadn?t built the port facilities and highways? How could the NFL have luxury boxes without public money to build the new stadiums?

?the rich? as a derogatory remark is really the resentment of those born to privilege thinking that they made it on their own, forgetting that their family, contacts, and money started them steps ahead of the ?working man?. You use Bill Gates as an example. I say without his ?well off? family he might not have had the luxury of a (partial) college education. He would not have had the capital to buy the DOS system from its inventor. Once he bought a product, he did work hard to get it established, but then used his power to stifle competition and innovation. Yes, Bill has reaped the rewards of his hard work, and society has benefited greatly, but where would we be if he had not been allowed to be so cut throat? Then again, where would we be if this were true Capitalism?

You say individualism, not collectivism, is what drives human accomplishment. Did you forget about Henry the Navigator? The government financed Columbus. The government financed Lewis and Clark. That Transcontinental Railroad again. All wars. The Space Program. Ok, the westward expansion was individuals but it was the government that stole California first.

While we do agree that ?the well-intentioned? idea is good and the practical implementation needs to be constantly reworked. The conservatives seem to have forgotten that these ideas did come from good intentions and are not evil. And, yes liberals need to learn history?s lessons, conservatives also need to look through the lens of history not the revisionist stories that are spouted over the airways as truth.

You say death to liberal philosophy. I say death to greed, selfishness, and short sightedness!

Your homework assignment is to write a report on ?noblesse oblige?.

So there!!!!”

“Good grief. Such a biased argument and too late to spend the time to blow holes through the torn nylon theories offered as facts.

I have a killer day tommorrow too.

Rats!”

“Show me the Republican who really wants less government! They just want a big government to give their corporations the rights of a person, (one of the biggest mistakes in jurisprudence ever made).
The first responsibility of government is protection. If we decide to solely let "the market", (the God of the Republicans), run, unchecked, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer....Until, (read your history!), the poor, who are far greater in numbers run rampant upon the rich. You should be thankful that there is government interference in business and the market. Government is necessary and, in this country, should represent all of us.”

“Quick bacpac do your homework! Let's hear from you tomorrow. Not just emotion and rhetoric now. You don't want to sound like a liberal. 8^)”

“I don't want my government to tax me for buying a used car. I do want my goverment to provide a structured road system to drive my used car.

I am a Republican.

I don't want the government to restrict my second amendment rights. I do want the government to punish criminals who use firearms to commit crimes.

I am a Republican.

I don't want the government to pay for sex change operations. I do want the government to provide medical assistance for elderly.

I am a Republican.

This could be fun, but I got to get some sleep”

“Bring it on, you "I did it all myself and don't owe anybody anything" types. Let's talk FACTS!”

“I do want "SDI", the most expensive military program in history, but we shouldn't have to collect taxes for it. Hmmmm...pure logic and reason.”

“New car, used car you should still pay your fair share to drive on the public highways.
Gun control? That's a hard one. I can see SOME government control, but I do own a gun.
Sex changes, damn you got me there. I just can't argue that one.
There's a little give for you, care to give any back?”