Supreme court ruling: Golf

“Face it, you all are just worried that THEY are going to pave our favorite trails to make them handicapped accessable. (wouldn't that be a beyatch?)”

“Bottom line is he couldn't play the game under the rules, so he sued to change the rules.

I have the same respect for him as the woman who spills McDonald's coffee on herself and sues successfully for $8 million dollars.

Which is to say a lot of respect. U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!”

“Hey, its just G O L F!!!”

“tommy, I guess it was his carelessness that caused him to be disabled. You callous lout.”

“Did anyone else note this in Bacpac's unmercifully long post? "I wouldn't mind playing around with Justice Scalia." EGAD!”

“Those robes drive him WILD!”

“Justice Scalia, "Q-School is no more a ?privilege? offered for the general public?s ?enjoyment? than is the California Bar Exam.1 It is a competition for entry into the PGA TOUR?an open tryout, no different in principle from open casting for a movie or stage production, or walk-on tryouts for other professional sports, such as baseball."”

“I wonder how this will affect those eco challenge races? Hopefully it will cause an end to them.”

“Someone mentioned that there is no time limit for walking. Well, there kind of is. Golfers are occasionally penalized strokes for slow play. This probably would not happen with Casey Martin.

But I also think caddies should be banned. If moving about the course is so integral to the game, then Tiger Woods should carry his own clubs. Oh, and everyone should play the same balls and clubs - and no metal woods.

I watch golf occasionally to be entertained. A tournament with Martin would be more entertaining for me. I don't really care about fairness, I just want to see a good show.”

“Maybe these guys are golfers. They obviously have handicaps.”

“flyguy--I'm callous because I said he couldn't play by the rules? He COULDN'T. Because I said he sued to change the rules? He DID.

If I give you a dollar will you buy a clue?

It's too bad he's disabled. It really is. But he can't play pro football, can't play pro baseball, etc etc etc., but he can play pro golf because they changed the rules to accommodate him.”

“the thing no one has mentioned is that this guy is a REALLY GOOD golfer. He was the 5th or 6th top driver, and has won a bunch of tournements. It's not like he is some hack golfer that is getting a free ride (pun intended) to join the PGA just cause he is handicapped. He has the talent to play golf at that level.

And, give me a break that riding a cart is such an incredible advantage to a player at that level. These guys aren't lugging around their bags, they're taking strolls between shots. If walking a course was such a fundamental challenge in golf, then why is it that Billy Casper, Craig Stadler, John Daly, some truly fat guys, are so good at it? Wouldn't you think that their extra weight would wear them out since they have to walk? Check out how many tournements those three have won...

Furthermore, during a tournement, if a pro hits a shot that is out of bounds and has to re-hit the shot, often times he catches a ride back up to the tee from a course marshall and back down to where that shot lands (I used to work for a company that ran concessions at PGA events and watched a hell of a lot of golf for 3 summers). So pros do use carts during tournements (just not as much as Mr. Martin will).

I bet the golf world wouldn't be so quick to condemn this ruling if the player involved was named Tiger...”

“Is there anyone on this thread who can actually hit a golf ball 275 yards?

Besides me of course.”

“yes bacpac, I can. I'm not trying to brag, and I am not nearly as good as I was a few years back but I don't play nearly as much as I used to (only play a couple times a year anymore). Have shot under par. Never was considered a scratch golfer, lowest handicap was a 3. Can I do it at every tee? no.”

“yep. I can hit the driver 275+. It's the only thing I can do right though...chipping has always been the death of me...

and putting...

and fairway woods...”

“Golfers, and the PGA Tour, are rather sensitive to the fact that their game is widely perceived to be more of a recreational activity than a sport. As previously mentioned, expert (and hefty) golfers such as Craig Stadler are held up as proof that even tour professionals aren't (and don't need to be) "athletes" in the purest sense of the word. Whether this is true or not, it has been the subject of prolonged debate.

Consequently, the golfing community is likely to resist anything that takes away the most visible physical aspect of the game. Not doing so would only serve to dimish their position/status as a "sport".

Myself, having been around the game for 20+ years, I can see both sides of the argument. Still, I'd say the tour missed a real opportunity to reach out and make the game more inclusive. They should have just let Casey play.”

“Calling a golfer an Athelete is like calling a bowler an Athelete .”

“Are we atheletes?

Is backpacking a sport?”

“"ATHLETES"

monkey see, monkey do.”

“backpacking is not a sport.”

“tommy, you are callous to liken him to the lady who sued McDonalds who spilled the coffee through fault of her own. Read your post.”

“Pisgah, bping is only a sport for advertisers. Are we atheletes? I dont see anything particularly athletic about taking one step then another ad infinitum with something 25lbs strapped to your back.If we are atheletes then so is the entire 3rd world, they walk EVERYWHERE.....”

“Fine. MickyDees spilled the coffee. So she whines and gets $8,000,000.

He's good with a swing, but can't hack it in the PGA. Can't cut it. They set the bar, and he can't reach it. So he whines and they change the rules for him. Oh, but only for him. Must remember that part.

I'm not sorry if I'm callous. If you can't hack it in the pros, you can't hack it. If you're too short, fat, blind, stupid, deaf, or dumb, you can't hack it.

Should you be provided reasonable accomodation in the work place? Absolutely. The professional sports theater? No way.

Unless you whine a lot, aparantly, and have a good lawyer.

That's why Robert Downey Jr. gets away with multiple drug arrests, but since we're not rich and famous, we'd be in jail right now. Just ask OJ.

Now, if this guy ever gets coffee spilled on him, he's got it made.”

“Now read my post, again. She spilled the coffee on her own lap.”

“Backpackers athletes? Not necessarily.

ath·lete:
n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Backpacking a sport?
Asked and answered”

“Golf sucks.”

“If I had to chose between golf and backpacking, I would sell my tent.”

“How much ya want fer it?”

“Tommy, you are missing the point... The PGA IS a "public accomadation" due to its OWN rules and selection/application project.ADA applies to ALL public accomadations.They screwed themselves. They had a chance to do right now its being done for them. Comparing spilled coffee to a degenerative disease is like...well...um...err...comparing spilled coffe to a degenerative disease.”

“Human beings are not equal. I don't think we need to be jerks to people who are disabled, but legislation can't even the playing field in anything. It will still come down to the fact that we don't all have the same abilities. It would suck if we all did, it'd be really boring.”

“People just don't want to admit that making shots has everything to do with and walking has nothing to do with golf. Well, then there's ugly clothes...”

“hyper, If the PGA's rules are to blame then professional baseball, the California Bar Association, movie producers.....ad nauseum have 'screwed themselves.'”

“Bacpac, PGA rules allow for anyone with a good game to apply for membership. I cant Imagine going to George Steinbrenners (sp?) office and asking for an application.”

“Bacpac, here is a cut/paste from the PGA homepage. I didnt see one anywhere on the NBA,NFL etc...sites.

Professional Readiness Orientation Program
Welcome to PGALinks.com and thank you for taking the opportunity to review the requirements necessary to become a member of The Professional Golfers? Association of America.

Please review the following information in its entirety.
Print out the GPTP Application Form
Use the Fees Calculator to determine the registration fee you need to send in with your Application.
Send all required documentation (including your completed GPTP Application, verification of highest level of education (diploma), and registration fee) to:
The PGA of America
Attn: Membership
100 Avenue of the Champions
Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33418



Regarding the California Bar...I would bet if they denied membership based on golf-cart use there membership would decline drastically.”

“Prerequisites

Excellent time management skills are essential for successful completion of the 600-plus hour program.
It is highly recommended that individuals have good computer skills and a basic understanding of accounting prior to registering for the Golf Professional Training Program.


More stuff from the PGA site.”

“Hyper, Open tryouts for Major league baseball are as American as Apple Pie.”

“flyguy--nope, you're wrong, and so was I...McD's spilled the coffee on her, when handing it through the drive through window. For whatever it's worth.

hyper---great. It's a public accomodation. THAT HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR. He did NOT have the skills necessary to compete. He was NOT PHYSICALLY COMPETANT. Was it his fault? Hell no. Neither is it mine that I'm not 7'2" and can dunk a basketball. But I'm NOT GOOD ENOUGH to play NBA and he WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH to play PGA until he whined like the b!tch who got coffee spilled on her and got more than she deserved too.

bacpac is right. Open tryouts are welcomed just fine in b-ball. And if ya ain't good enough, well, hit the showers and goodbye, boyo.

Not golf, I guess.

Just cry and whine and have a good lawyer.”

“He passed the"open tryout" by placing 14th on the "buy.com" tour last year.This grants an automatic exemption fromapplication and for membership and the right to play on the tour.

And Tommy the women didnt "get" coffee spilled on her she did it to herself.”

“"But I'm NOT GOOD ENOUGH to play NBA and he WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH to play PGA until he whined..."

Tommy he already WAS a PGA member. And had been for years and had used a cart for years.”

“Hyper, get the facts straight. The Buy.Com tour is a PGA tour. He was able to ride a cart on the Buy.Com tour, because of a lower court ruling a couple years ago. This last decision was an appeal by the PGA. It is against the rules to use a cart on the BUY.Com tour also.”

“Bacpac perhaps a course in reading comprehension is in order for you...

As I stated earlier "he already WAS a PGA member. And had been for years and had used a cart for years."

Its ironic that you mention "facts" when the majority of your posts have been opinion...

"This is Legistlation from the bench. The court created law..."

"Maybe Casey should coach golf."

"As usual we have a group of experts that don't know the difference between a five iron and a mulligan"

"Maybe these guys are golfers. They obviously have handicaps."

"If the PGA's rules are to blame then professional baseball, the California Bar Association, movie producers.....ad nauseum have 'screwed themselves."

Yea Bacpac, just the facts right. Let's not drift off subject and speculate or brag about our own golf GAME.”

“Bacpac...

Usted esta equivocado.
Vous avez tort.
Sie sind falsch.
Lei hanno torto.
De er gal.
Estao errado port.

In any language YOU ARE WRONG!”

“Well gee.

If it's legal to use a cart, why can't everybody?

If it's legal to use a cart, why the fuss?

Oh, maybe because he has special privlidges, and for him they bend the rules.

"He passed the"open tryout" by placing 14th on the "buy.com" tour last year.This grants an automatic exemption from application and for membership and the right to play on the tour."

Yeah, he has a right to play on the tour. And tour rules say you can't use a cart. Only he can't play under the rules, can he? He has to change them so he can play, doesn't he?”

“"As I stated earlier he already WAS a PGA member. And had been for years and had used a cart for years."

Hyper, You are wrong. Mr. Martin was not allowed to use a cart when he started the Buy.Com tour (Nike tour then). He sued the PGA, went to court and won a few years ago so he started riding in a cart. The Supreme court decision was an appeal of that ruling.

He was only allowed to use a cart on the Nike Tour, after he won the initial court ruling. The PGA refused his request until he won in court. He has already played in a couple PGA events with his cart.

Dat's da facts Jack. So who is wrong now?”

“Hyper, I take the liberty of expressing my opinion, because I know the facts. This case is a valid debate topic for anyone understands what has happened, but since you do not know any of the history of this case is has turned into a pissing contest.

Did you think this case started in the Supreme Court? Your ignorance of golf is only exceeded by your ignorance of this country's legal system.”

“It's a stupid PGA rule. Just like the rule they had for decades that said blacks couldn't play.

It's a public accomodation. THAT HE WASN'T WHITE ENOUGH FOR. He did NOT have the skin color necessary to compete. He was NOT PHYSICALLY COMPETENT. Was it his fault? Hell no.

Thank you very little!”

“Bacpac, please re:re:read what I wrote"As I stated earlier he already WAS a PGA member. And had been for years and had used a cart for years."

Nowhere does this say(nor do I imply) that he rode a cart on the Buy.com tour. It was simply a statement of his membership status and exemption from PGA application for the following year.

And you also admit to a precident in cart use "He has already played in a couple PGA events with his cart."


"Hyper, I take the liberty of expressing my opinion, because I know the facts." So this implies that you are too informed to deal with fact and that your OPINION is equal to fact? That is fairly thin logic at best.

Never once have I claimed to be a golfer or even knowledgable about play. That is why I quoted verbatim PGA rules/regulations. This prevents my opinion from becoming a factor in this little debate.

No I dont believe that this case started in the Supreme Court. But since that is ultimately where the case landed and was decided,it doesnt much matter what happened prior. Its a done deal. The highest court in the land has ruled for Casey. You can disagree with their decision but you would be wrong,factually.Unless of course you can find a more powerful court body to appeal to. Again, its YOUR opinion that he shouldnt ride, it is FACT that he will.

It took you this long to realize that this is a pissing contest?!?! As a non-golfer why would I care if Casey walks,rides,or does somersaults between holes?

" Golf is a good walk,spoiled". Mark Twain”

“"And you also admit to a precident in cart use "He has already played in a couple PGA events with his cart."

This is not a precident! A precident would be cart use BEFORE the court ruling not AFTER. Your entire argument has been based upon the PGA allowing him to qualify in a cart. The PGA did not allow him to qualify in a cart. The Judge did. The court ruling took place years ago. This Supreme Court decision was in support of the earlier ruling. The PGA went to the Supreme Court to overturn the initial ruling.

I am changing your trail name to Mug as in Mug root beer. I have never seen anyone so thick headed.”

“Whew, I am getting too old for these moronathons.”

“why does it smell like piss in here?

where's that moaning coming from?”