Into Thin Air

“No; not our friend, Thin Air ...

I mean the movie ... It is on TV tonight.
For anyone who has not seen it or read the book. It is a pretty good show.
It is on at 8:00 central time - check your local listings”

“I have seen the movie and it is great. I would never be that brave, but man I wish I was.”

“It's on ABC 9 PM EDT.”

“I just finished watching the movie. Once again, the book is definitely better than movie.”

“Will it be on again? I was watching the new Crocodile Hunter shows.”

“Brave AZ? I'm not sure whether it's bravery, obsession or stupidity. I wouldn't want to do it.

Decent movie, but the book is always better.”

“you folks have time to watch TV?

it's SUMMER!!! geez!!!”

“terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible movie.”

“Arclite, If the best person in this business offered to give you all the necessary training, equipment, opportunity, and time to do this once-in-a-lifetime adventure you wouldn't do it? I'm not saying I would succeed, but I would love to give it my best shot. If I only made it 1 mile up Mt Everest, I would feel like I was on top of the world.

I look at people who overcome cancer or blindness and succeed and I say if they can to that I should be able to do more than I am doing now. I don't look at people as role models, I look at their courage.

Bravery is something that has been hard for me. I have had to learn it, forced myself. I would force myself to do this.

I know, instead of planning a hike in the USA lets all go and do K2 or Mt. Everest. Come on everybody, it will be fun. I'll bring sandwiches and Kool Aid.”

“No AZ, I honestly wouldn't be interested in Everest. After reading the book I came to realize that most of that journey is about overcoming pain and deprivation. You spend months at base camp waiting for your shot. Krakaur (sp?) describes taking one step for every four breaths. You pass dead bodies all along the way. Severe frosbite, and cerebral ediema are very real possibilities.

No, I don't go into the backcountry to accomplish major goals. I have enough of those in my worklife to keep me happy. I go to the woods for peace, not for obsession nor to be around obsessive people.”

“Good point. I also look for peace and relaxation. All day long I have people talking at me and sometimes I just don't want to talk. I truely want to recharge my mind and body so I to can carry on with every day life.
I'm not an obsessed hiker, but I do set goals for myself. It makes me feel good.
You're right in that I also think these people are or have to be to survive - obsessed. I know I don't have that quality.”

“As far as movies based on real life stories g it's not so bad. I only observed a couple inconsistencies with the books on the subject, the most notable (IMO) being that I thought two sherpas tried to reach Hall on the South Summit, not Krakauer and Biedlemen. They also didn't give any credit to the doctor (Hutchinson?) who came down early and was running all over camp 4 trying get sherpas and climbers to help. Oh well, not bad for Hollywood I guess.

And yes, if I had the chance to go I'd do it in a heartbeat...can anybody loan me the requisite $50K?”

“I must admit that I read the book and saw the movie and enjoyed them. If someone offered me "the trip" I'd have to tell them to donate the time and expenses to a good charity.

Once upon a time I thought it would be the most awesome adventure, now I think of it as the last great self-induldgence.”

“Yeah rockbuck, they really made Kakauer out to be much more involved that he wrote about in the book. They almost tried to make him out as a heroic figure.

I also saw The Patriot, and believe they should string up all those baby-killin', murderin' Brits. I make a point of telling that to a British friend of mine, here at work, as often as I can.”

“Looove razzin those Brits, especially after the Ryder Cup. They're really tryin to make those Frenchies look good aren't they? LOL!”

“I was lucky enough to be invited to a private slide show of one of the climbers involved. It was incedible. The climber's name is Klev Shoening and he is a friend of a friend - he's mentioned breifly in the book, but not the movie. He was with the group that got lost on descent from the summit, which included Beck Weathers. He is the one who made it back to camp to rouse some help for the others.

His take on the whole deal was very matter-of-fact. He pointed no fingers at anyone and he said Krakauer saw it one way and others saw it differently, but no one was to blame, and no one was blameless.

His wife was at home in Seattle with their 10-month old daughter when she got the call that said he was lost, then later that he was dead, and finally a call from him saying he was alive. Can you imagine?

He went back this spring but I am not sure if he summitted.”

“I remember him, his Dad was a famous mountaineer who had the good sense to pull himself out of the summit attempt when he felt he wasn't up to it. Klev, and the two ski patrollers - Fox and Madsen(?) seemed like the only clients on Hall's team who were really up to the task.

My take on the whole affair sounds similar to his (and Krakauer's too IMO), and that is there were allot little mistakes that added up to a whole lot when the storm hit, sort of a "perfect storm" scenario where everything bad that could happen did happen with tragic consequences. I've read about allot of other expeditions to the E that got away with a whole lot more mistakes/gambles than the Hall/Fischer expeditions ever took (just MHO).

Yeah, it would be a harrowing experience for the relatives. Same thing happened to Beck Weathers, and Andy Harris' girlfriend and relatives were told he made it then that he didn't.

All in all a real tragedy. I hope in the 5 years since people have had a chance to heal.”

“Rockbuck, actually that is his uncle (Pete) who was, I believe, 67 at the time. He was the first to summit Gasherbrum I (26,470' high) in 1958. He was part of the K2 expedition in 1953 where four climbers fell and he self-arrested and saved them all.

Klev said his uncle has a sixth sense about things and on the way up to the summit, he had a bad feeling and opted out.”

“I remember that story about him arresting with 4 guys swingin below him, amazing! As I was watching the movie last night I was thinking of Fischer's assistance in the rescue of Hall's partner Gary Ball (?) from K2, heroic stuff. Too bad more of the efforts that were made on behalf of and within the 96 teams weren't brought out in the movie.

I apologize if I'm getting names and places screwed up, I certainly don't want to offend anyone on this issue.”

“Krakaur was pretty critical of the late Anatoli Boukreev's actions on that trip. Boukreev's book 'The Climb' is a good read and addresses a lot of the inconsistencies in Krakaur's story. It provides an excellent 'other side of the story'.

Krakaur later re-released 'Thin Air' with a response to Boukreev that included some retractions.

I spoke at length with Lene Gammelgaard ('Climbing High'), a surviving Danish climber with Fisher's group. She was surprisingly, quite open with here opinion of Krakaur and his 'inacurate' accounts in 'Thin Air'. She was, in fairness, quite close friends with Boukreev.

I guess, even if you were there, you may have seen different thing in different ways. The whole thing must have been very surreal.

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe Boukreev's version as accurate. A seasoned veteran, he was right there and in many people's eyes was a true hero of the event. Krakaur's main critisism was that as a guide, he should have used oxygen.

Anyways, if the story intrests you, be sure to read all sides, before you take 'Thin Air' as fact. I really enjoyed that book until I read a few more.”

“I agree Krakauer seemed more critical of Boukreev than any other single mistake that was made. I tend to agree that with him that it would have been appropriate for him to have used o's and to have stayed with the group. OTOH, I think the biggest mistake was not turning back earlier but that rule seems to get ignored allot. But that is all just hindsight and doesn't help the situation at all. I feel certain that nobody was being belligerent in they're actions, it's just that mistakes were made at a time when the mountain was being very unforgiving.

I read Climb, Breshears book, as well as some guy who was on the classic route at the same time (where the controversy was 3 Indians who died even though a Japanese team walked right by them on ascent and descent). All worthwile reading for nuts like me who get totally absorbed in historical events...wanna talk about M&I? ;-)) 96 was a bad year on E that's for sure.

As I read and write on this thread I've noticed something interesting. In the two day lifespan of this thread the world seems to have gotten a little smaller for me just because a movie was rerun on TV. kleetn had the pleasure of listening to Klev, BC with Gammelgaard, and I'm remembering lying on beach in Mexico October 96 talking with a woman who worked for Starbucks and was close with Fischer, she couldn't stop talking about the whole thing, especially all the angst that took place in the aftermath. 5 years later and we still have vivid memories of that time and can share experiences and perspectives from close and afar just as if the tragic afair happened yesterday.

Best regards to ya.”

“Have any of you read 'Eiger Dreams' by Krakauer? It is full of great climbing-related stories, especially some of the stuff about Denali.”

“I'll have to get a copy. The timing of your suggestion is good, I'm a little light on reading material these days.”

“Well, darn! I'm washing the car tonight! No time to watch tv. Although, I'm 3/4 thru the book so I wouldn't want to ruin it with the movie. I always thought that I would rent it after I'm done with the book. Have fun watchin...whoever's watchin it.”

“I read the book Into Thin Air a few months ago and I still can't get it out of my mind. It was one of the most intense books I've ever read. I've gone on to read Boukrev's book and
Breasurs's book also. I had heard that the movie was just so so , and I thought that was an accurate review of the movie. Sometimes the " word " can be so much more powerful than a movie
with time constraints . There were so many little dramas going on that the movie couldn't really capture all that was going on. ......... Breasurs also was critical of Boukrev for going without
oxygen and supplies . He was supposed to be a guide not on a solo summit attempt . That was one of many mistakes that were made that day , who knows what difference it would have
made . Breasurs also credited him for his heroic rescue of the other climbers . Since this tragdy happened both Boukrev and one of the other Sherpas have died on the mountains . It just
seems crazy.”

“I read the book Into Thin Air a few months ago and I still can't get it out of my mind. It was one of the most intense books I've ever read. I've gone on to read Boukrev's book and
Breasurs's book also. I had heard that the movie was just so so , and I thought that was an accurate review of the movie. Sometimes the " word " can be so much more powerful than a movie
with time constraints . There were so many little dramas going on that the movie couldn't really capture all that was going on. ......... Breasurs also was critical of Boukrev for going without
oxygen and supplies . He was supposed to be a guide not on a solo summit attempt . That was one of many mistakes that were made that day , who knows what difference it would have
made . Breasurs also credited him for his heroic rescue of the other climbers . Since this tragdy happened both Boukrev and one of the other Sherpas have died on the mountains . It just
seems crazy.”

“I probably am not aware of half the stuff written about "E-96" but there are also books by Boukreev "Climb" and Beck Weathers' "Left for Dead", and Matt Dickinson's "The other side of Everest" which is the same time on the North side where tragedy occurred also. If you're into broader E History "Everest: Eighty Years of Triumph and Tragedy" chronicles allot of the signifigant ascents including '96. "The Ghosts of Mallory and Irvine" is an interesting kind of two for one book, tracing the steps of two expeditions - M&I beginning in '21 and the '99 archeaology expedition by Simonson.

Yeah, I get a little into this kind of stuff rather heavily, Custer, Chiliean soccer teams, etc. Kind of a nut I guess ;-))

Happy reading!”

“I also spoke with Lene Gammelgard, and have seen her slides.

Basically, what I got from my conversation with her was, "No one respects me because I'm a woman. I'm a better climber than most people who were on the mountain that day. I was one of the only people to keep myself pulled together during the tragedy. Everyone but me made mistakes. Blah, blah, blah."

IMHO she is a self-righteous publicity hound who will spend the rest of her life bashing Hall and Fisher for the purpose of self-promotion.

But I wasn't on the mountain, so I don't know what really happened. I just know that woman is somethin' else!

Have yall read Bruce Barcott's "Measure of a Mountain"? It is about Rainier. Very good reading.

BTW - I haven't read Lene's book.”

“m-nutz, yes, I read that! "Measure of a Mountain" was a very good book (though I thought it ended rather anti-climatically).”

“I read Boukreev's book The Climb, and he impressed me as being quite candid with no axe to grind. I have a problem with some of the others who spend a lot of time casting blame.

As to Everest, no thanks. I value my fingers and toes too.”

“much”

“I read the ammended version of the book - where Krakauer made the retractions to some of the stuff he said about Boukreev.
I remember Krakauer stating the fact that their brains were severly oxygen starved during the summit; and as a result each person on the mountain that day seems to remembers thigs differently.
I thought the movie was kinda lame - compared to the book


Krakauer
Boukreev”

“I have six groups of government final English exams to correct and I also can't find where I put my class marks - so I'm surfing TT, natch.

Just my opinion - and I have none on the relative veracity of different accounts, nor of the qualities of different persons - BUT, Krakauer's book was a fantastically intense and personal read. IMHO, it's one of the three best mountaineering books. I also noticed in the EMS store last Sunday that Joe Simpson's 'Touching the Void' is again in print. Also, 'Annapurna, premier 8 000 metres' has been re-issued to mark the 50th anniversary of the first conquest of the 14; I'm pretty sure there's an English translation.

IMHO, once again, I believe these are the top three. Also there's Boddington's account (for the love of God, I can't remember the title - can anyone help?) about coming down from an 8 000m with a buddy who had broken a leg, only to discover deserted camps, one after the other. They arrived at base camp as the team was packing up to leave. Fantastic. BTW, they're all about coming back, not going up (although that's an important part of the story, too).”

“I have six groups of government final English exams to correct and I also can't find where I put my class marks - so I'm surfing TT, natch.

Just my opinion - and I have none on the relative veracity of different accounts, nor of the qualities of different persons - BUT, Krakauer's book was a fantastically intense and personal read. IMHO, it's one of the three best mountaineering books. I also noticed in the EMS store last Sunday that Joe Simpson's 'Touching the Void' is again in print. Also, 'Annapurna, premier 8 000 metres' has been re-issued to mark the 50th anniversary of the first conquest of the 14; I'm pretty sure there's an English translation.

IMHO, once again, I believe these are the top three. Also there's Boddington's account (for the love of God, I can't remember the title - can anyone help?) about coming down from an 8 000m with a buddy who had broken a leg, only to discover deserted camps, one after the other. They arrived at base camp as the team was packing up to leave. Fantastic. BTW, they're all about coming back, not going up (although that's an important part of the story, too).”

“boddingtons.

mmm. good brew!”

“Oops, how did that happen?

BTW, one of the more interesting themes of the book (I'm an English teacher, remember?) is the play between Krakauer, Doug (Somebody, the postal worker) and the rich kids on the block. Krakauer clearly states the he belongs to the bare-ass school of climbing, like bicycling in France (Remember when the French dumped on Lemond for going golfing? Too bourgeois.) And soccer (and climbing) in the U.K. Too bad they didn't develop that theme in 'Vertical Limit' because it's a good one.

Anyhoo, one of life's ironies is that the book and movie have made Krakauer a very wealthy man - complete with deluxe (read coffe table) editions and all. I read some snide remarks in some Canadian climbing journals about this messing him up even further - although he has given a lot of it away, apparently. It can't be helping the healing process. Anyway there were remarks about his 'self-medication' at the Banff Mountain Film Festival. Too bad if it's true; and even worse, too bad some people seem to think it's funny.

I ahven't read any of the others on the '96 disaster, mostly because I don't care who's right or wrong. It was a tragedy in the truest sense of the word and that's all.”

“Gremlin, I agree that Joe Simpson's "Touching the Void" was a great read.

It's about him injuring his leg and falling over a cliff on a climb in South America and his fellow climbers assuming he was dead...and how he crawls down the mountain the very day his base camp is packing to leave. Very memorable book.”

“I need to pick up "Touching the Void". I've been meaning to read that for a while. "The White Spider" is also on my list. A climbing classic, I hear. The book that inspired many of the world's greatest climbers to head for the mountains.

kleetn - I agree, "Measure..." does have a lame ending.”

“I summited in '86. It was the hardest thing I ever did and cost a fortune but it was an experience I'll never forget.”

“Summited Everest in '86? Wow, congratulations! I'd love to hear your story, see some pics.

I really appreciate all the book recommendations guys. I need to load up some more reading material.”

“rockbuck, go to the search on this page and search "books" and "all threads". There are at least three threads on it.”

“Go here for book threads.”

“oops. link won't work. you'll have to do your own search.”

“Thanks Baume66, I found it and although I thought I was done with the E-96 thing I think I will take a look at Goran Kropp's Ultimate High. Could be an interesting read from an outsiders point of view on the thing.”

“Oh wait....




I'm full of it!”

“Huh?



Sorry, I'm a newbie here.”

“Thin hair. That is my problem, but it's not backpacking related.”

“M-Nuts.. I wasn't going to add what I thought of Lene, personally, but I agree with you, somewhat. I guess it takes a certain amount of 'me first' or 'I'm best' attitude to achieve such things. Have you ever met a Pro athelete, for example, that doesn,t have an ego?

Her book was actually written and released in Denmark before '96. It doesn't deal with that trip. She was just cashing in, like everyone else, but it's not bad.

I loved 'Touching the Void' and 'Annapurna' is good also.

Rockbuck.. Is Goran Kropp the guy that rode his bicycle from Sweeden to climb Everest solo? My pal next door mentioned 'that crazy Sweede' that he got to know in Africa , this year, was comming into town, soon. Now that guy will be interesting to meet!”

“ahhh, rockbuck, I do believe violin was yanking our collective chain.”

“BC, yeah that's the guy and he probably is a real interesting guy. He was the first to try and summit that year, solo, bagged it below the H-step, and then went on to summit a couple weeks later. Definitly sounds like an interesting guy to meet.”