What do you think of this?

“Students in Mississippi are arrested and charged with a felony for throwing peanuts on the school bus after a stray peanut hits the bus driver. A 6-year-old Pennsylvania boy is suspended 10 days for bringing a toenail clipper to school. A Florida high school student who had a steak knife in her car is barred from graduating. A kindergartner is suspended for bringing a toy ax to school as part of his Halloween costume. Two New Jersey 8-year-old students were arrested and charged with making terroristic threats after pointing paper guns at classmates.

A co-worker of mine was shaken up recently when he got a call from his 7 year old?s principal informing him his son had brought ?a gun? to school. He frantically drove to the school wondering where the kid had gotten a gun (he owns none). He met first with the teacher who thought the principal was overreacting to a one-inch plastic gun for GI Joe. The guy never said ?toy gun? or anything like that over the phone. My co-worker could have had an accident driving to the school in that state. Who created more danger?

Believe me, I?m all for protecting our kids and am not blind to recent violent events in our schools but does introducing a normal kid to the justice system at a young age do anyone any good?”

“Last year my middle son was in eight grade.
The class went on a swim trip.
I got an angry call from the principle that he and others had thrown something from the moving bus....I didn't hear "what" they had thrown.
I was kinda pissed....at the kid..."what", I said to my self, "has he snapped?"

Oh yeah, he was also said to have angrily given the finger to the "whole" class??????

This boy, and the kid across the street, are fairly quiet guys????

It turns out that several of these knuckleheads had tossed Goldfish Crackers out of the bus and the principle was following in a car and seen it????

This STUPID woman made it sound as if "lives could have been lost!"”

“My whole bus shoulda been given LIFE!”

“The Florida High School student was an honor student. She had moved the weekend before and the knife had fallen out of some boxes. It was laying in the back seat floor board. She was barred from graduation ceremonies. She also had some scholarships she will probably lose. The principal basiscally said rules are rules, no exceptions. The college she is going to attend said that if she loses the scholarships they will find her sponsors. All accounts I have seen say this is a good kid caught in a bad situation.”

“Oh this one is really backpacking related!”

“I think some people need to get a life. Apologies to our school teachers but there sure seem to be some dummies out there. Sounds like time for self defense classes so you have your wheapon on your person and the principal can't find it. I'm glad my kids are grown. When they messed up in school I just got a phone call. In the good old days the cops just turned you over to your parents when you messed up.”

“Here are a few things that would make this go away.

1. Parent involvement with kids.

2. Non-bleeding heart liberal teachers in schools.

3. Parents, lock your guns up, if you don't, you go to jail!

4. Suspend kids that bully other kids, and have thier parents pay a steep fine.

That should take care of it, then kids can start being kids again.”

“The "rules are rules" argument is a weak excuse for administrators and managers to avoid making decisions and by extension, accept any responsibility. I've been watching this trend for a long time.

Our company randomly tests all it's employees for drugs. This relieves the supervisors of the responsibility of reprimanding a single employee for substandard work or bad behavior, and removes most of the initiative for retributions and/or lawsuits.”

“It is pretty scary that a kid with a manicure kit or a swiss army knife can be suspended or expelled while a bully that terrorizes other kids generally gets no punishment, or detention at the worst. Oh, well.”

“Buddha Bear -

How did I know you'd blame this one on the liberals somehow? You crack me up.”

“Jeesh, when I was in school the kids threw lit cherry bombs around where they exploded on the bus. The bus driver acted like it never happened. The principle told my mother and four other mothers that it never happened. But now kids are in trouble for paper guns, tiny plastic guns and a knife in a car (not in school or concealed on a student's person). Could this an extreme swing of the pendulum (sp)?”

“How about the terrifying act of making a gun out of your thumb and forefinger?”

“You asked what I think so here I go...

These are all disgusting examples of paranoid people scared of liability going hay-wire.

I really do hope that everyone realizes that these are EXTREME cases of stupidity and not typical of educators. I've been a teacher or counselor in schools for a long time and I can tell you this is not typical, but I agree they are dumb.

Given the millions of educators in tnes of thousand of schools in a country as big as ours it should be easy to see that anything, no matter how absurd, can sometimes happen.


None of these things would have happened in the schools I have worked in. I could give several examples...but I'll keep it brief.

I know there are other educators on TT. I would like to know what they think.”

“P.C. run amuck. I blame the liberals too while I'm at it. Thank God we have people like them to save us from ourselves.”

“Boy,how the world turns! In the 10th grade I was one of the top sellers in a fund raiser and received as my award-a really cool knife,at school no less!”

“lol violin, we agree to disagree at times, but at least we can be civil about it. ( I just want to note that I think lawyers are a huge problem as well, which is anti-conservative)

Sandy, my first scar (on my thumb) was from a pocket knife won at school selling magazines. Unfortunately, mom and dad took it away and I haven't seen it since (Now it is a family joke)

Lighten up America!”

“Hey when I was in the 5th grade IN A SCHOOL my friend and this girl went up in the school attic to explore and be bad kids and I casually asked her "Cynthia you ever think about fuking?"”

“I agree with sonrisas. Common sense and good student-teacher relationships make a difference. Twice I have had boys in my class bring jackknives to school...in both cases they had wood projects going at recess. A gentle comment from me about safety and a request that I be informed was enough.

It's hard for me to understand the over-reactions that have been listed, but I'm reluctant to judge without the full story. However, that doesn't excuse a lack of objective reporting on the school's part.

Our school has a very strong behavior policy created to make a safe environment for all. But in using the policy, it is paramount that all have a chance to speak and be heard, hopefully resulting in a fair and proportionate (if punishment is required) resolution. So far (1.5 years) it's been very successful.”

“My uncle is a 5th grade teacher in a small farm community. Its not uncommon for his students to have chores to do before they catch the school bus. One common chore is feeding the stock hay/alfalfa. Many times has he had male students come to class with a small pocket knife (which they used to cut the twine on the hay bales). There is a "zero" tolerance policy,they MUST be expelled for the remainder of the year.

During the first few days of school he explains to his class that If they happen to bring a knife and no one else knows about it, then its not really there and if they are worried to give it to him and it will be sent home later with no ill effect. However, if they show their friends then its all over.”

“steve got drunk by 10pm?”

“In about 1970 in high school one of the smart-asses carried an empty six-pack of beer cans into school one morning.
The cans had been drained from the bottom and the six-pack looked intact.
This guy carried it through the crowded entrance hallway right past one of the teacher/monitors.
A mad chase erupted with this short-fused male teacher going berserk.
The kid ran this poor bastard around and around and finally gave up showing the crowd of kids that it was fake.
I thought the teacher was going to EXPLODE!
All the kid got was an ass-chewing but what a show!”

“First of all it's Principal and run amok (I are a teacher and cannot help it).

My girls' rugby team gave me an 'anatomically correct' inflatable sheep, I call her Dolly. It was at a presentation ceremony during an exchange to Victoria, B.C.. Dolly has spent the rest of the school year on a bookcase in my class and never missed a rugby match. We are all convinced that it's at least partly due to her that they won the league championship by beating the English school in the neighbouring village. Great fun and I haven't been fired (yet). Gawd, what are kids coming to, sheesh.

You know what's wrong with kids? They're people just like us.”

“When I was in fifth grade, back in 1955, I used to make swords out of straight pins, a piece of gimp, and beads, and sell 'em to my classmates for a nickel each. I pretty much armed the entire 5th grade. I guess I'd be looking at major time in the slammer if I did that today.

PC run amok and the continuing decline in common sense and responsibility, along with Americans giving up more of their rights and personal freedom in the hopeless quest for absolute government-guaranteed safety and security.”

“My point is (if I have one) is that we all have to lighten up. Lately TT threads have become focused on too much negative stuff. Hey, the summer is just about here; let's get out and have some fun. My kids are in their final government English exam and, what with finding an apartment for college next year and a summer job, are stressed right out of their minds.

There are stupid people everywhere and sometimes I'm one too, but it's not the end of the world - unless we make it so.

I've had one hell of a year. My waterpipes froze (I live in an old, one room school house built in 1830 that I'm slowly renovating) and my son was hospitalised for manic deprssion. I had to cancel my Mount Mckinley project. I put up the 16 year-old daughter of a former girlfriend for three weeks while meeting Youth Protection (I'm 52 and live alone so they're pretty watchful in these situations - except they kept asking me to keep her another week), Familly Crisis Centre and the social worker. I have had three anorexic girls this year, one of whom we nearly lost, as well as two other 17 year old girls medicated and treated for depression, also one suicidal adolescent male. My son was back in the hospital and I had him out on a 12 hour pass and blew my motor taking him back. I had to deal with the hospital and with my son without medication for another 12 hours. You might say life has been interesting.

HOWEVER, I had the best batch of bright, hard working kids in my 24 years of teaching in our small (850 kids), rural high school. A federal government programme paid for an exchange to the west coast when everyone was sick of the winter here. Thirty-two girls, three rugby coaches, including myself and a wonderful young woman on staff who helps kids. We had a wonderful time and even more fun when they came out here. The car has a 'new' motor and I had a great weekend playing rugby with many of my former students on our team, then driving down in the pouring rain to the Alpine Club of Canada Montreal Section 'farm house' in Keene, N.Y. and a wonderful hike in the 'Dacks on Sunday. Stiffer'n hell yesterday, but I'll be at training to-night.

Best of all, I am in great health (except for asthma) and I DIDN'T BURN OUT! Cool!

So, hey, HAPPY TRAILS (I discourage the excessive use of capitals in class).”

“I've had kids bring in toy swords and guns for use as props - makes good Shakespeare.

I've also had two kids suspended for making death lists. I was on neither - is that good or bad?

And I laugh sometimes when I hear these news reports. Some seem outlandish.

But, then again, there is a point at which it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm sure there are teachers at Columbine just kicking themselves about past incidents.

Sometimes the "right" answer sits on a moving line. And, occasionally, teachers cross over.”

“You just weren't on the lists that they found RL”

“I know, Buddha. They're all probably out there right now planning.

Oh, I forgot to mention that a borderline F/D- kid threatened to cut my break lines a few weeks ago when I failed him on the last day of class.

I didn't think he'd ever do it, but we called the police anyway and I was checking my car out for the next several days.

But, I've never really felt unsafe in school. I think the media is just really sensitive to all this right now.”

“Jesus, I just had a girl fall apart in the exam room. When I got the call in my office I ran like hell. I was sure it was one of my depressives or anorexics, but it was a girl from whom I had barely heard 'boo' all year (of course). I half carried her to the infirmary where the nurse is trying to put her back to-gether. I'll see if I can get Karine (the girl who came to Victoria with us) on her case. the problem is that exams finish Friday, then they're gone. Long term follow-up is difficult, as most have to move to the city to continue their education.

No wonder some kids blow. I have the impression that somw teachers work in a state of constant fear. There is as much pressure in school now as in the 60's and almost no family support - that's not true, but there's one hell of a lot less. Also, almost all my kids work part-time to pay for those God damned designer labels, without which they are convinced they can't live (and we're just as bad).

Social support for teachers has changed, too. I enjoy gOTTA GO, JUST GOT A CALL.”

“Whew, it was just a teacher invigilating my exam who wanted to sneak a smoke in the washroom. Everything seems under control. As I was saying, I'm lucky to work in the country. Some people don't like everyone knowing your business, but the positive side is the community support and affection - if you deserve it, I guess.

It takes me about two hours to buy a litre of milk because I keep ruinning into parents, kids and former students, but I love it. Can you imagine the atmosphere in a school - which is a workplace for both teacher, administrators and kids, where they panic at the sight of a child with a paper clip? What kind of life must these people lead to be so out of whack? They must sit barricaded in their homes staring at the TV and its special brand of 'reality'in a permanent cold sweat. Jeez.”

“Sorry, some typos and '...and kids' should be in parentheses.”

“grimlin, you sound like the kind of teacher kids are lucky to have!

My son had a H.S. teacher last year that would remind the kids each and every day to check their pockets for any forgotten contraband and then they could leave whatever "illegal" item, be it a pack of matches or an oz., with him and pick it up after school no questions asked. I thought it was an inventive idea to work out a trust with the kids and difuse potentially dangerous and or stupid situations (like the ones mentioned above).”

“Thank you, Pamster. You know? it doesn't take more than we have just to treat kids like sentient human beings rather than monsters that might explode at any moment. Other people go home tired at the end of the day and so we might as well too.

One of the best things about teaching is extra-curricular activities. They don't just turn kids around, I've seen bad teachers, people who were lousy teachers for years, get an idea for a project and be totally transformed just by having worked with kids at something everyone enjoyed. When kids don't talk, it's often because they're afraid to. It took me a lot of confidence-building experience before I learned that sometimes the vey best disciplinary tool is to be laid back and to tell, or help, a kid to relax. Sometimes you have to develop selective deafness, but a little patience is often far more effective than any disciplinary weapon in our armoury.

Oh yes, there is a down side to teaching in the country. The local primary schools are having track and field day here and that means I have two ex's walking around the building. I'll have to avoid the cafeteria this lunch. Hoo boy.”

“gremlin-
Are you in B C or Quebec or what?
Didn't you mention Victoria?

It sounds as though you bop 'til ya drop!”

“I'm in Quebec, but we went to B.C. on a linguist/sport/cultural exchange. Bop till ya drop, it's a life not a job. Cheers.”

“Girl's rugby!
I'm in!”

“The zero tolerance rule is stupid. It's used by school administrators too lazy or too stupid to do their jobs.

A small community near me has a two room schoolhouse with about 15 students. Most ride horses to school from nearby ranches. Nobody would ever consider riding a horse in this country without a small shoepick and pocketknife, yet the countywide school district enacted a zero tolerance rule. Most of the kids learned to fire a rifle before they could walk, and field dress game before learning to read. espite the protests from the teacher and parents of the school the rule stands.”

“As a rural community/tech college, we certainly have a more "open" situation than in K-12 or the urban schools in our college system. Folding knives and multitools are common accessories on student and some staff belts (including mine on some days). I had one student who would be considered "at-risk" and desparately wanting to draw attention to himself, through clothing, hair, "fringe" (by Northwoods standards) comments. One day in class, sitting in the back corner as usual (though a small room), he pulled out a folding knife and began flipping it open and closed, though the other students probably couldn't see it. I just avoided eye contact beyond the normal distribution among the students. But after class, I pulled him aside, told him firmly to not do that again or things would not be cool between us, and that was the end of it. He was hoping, I believe, for a little bit of public martyrdom, a self-fulfilling prophecy of being "picked on" for being different, which was his world view. I didn't play along by freaking out, but put it on a private, person-to-person level. Whether this would work with all such students, I don't know. He wasn't aggressive, just looking for buttons to push, and weapons in schools certainly have become a big button of late.

The most effective posting I have on my office walls is a post card created by the poet Ken Mikolowski, who once owned his own letter press. In bold letters it says: Thank you for not being an @sshole (though it isn't censored as it is here). Those who appreciate the sentiment comment on it, those who don't seem to realize that to say anything would qualify them as one. It's been up for 7.5 years and everyone from the college president on down has been in my office where they couldn't miss it, and no complaints. Maybe it just shows that getting to the point helps.”

“Nice thought, "it's a life, not a career". To a lot of people, "it's just a job." I'm not talking about teaching, but all employment. Sometimes it is really hard to find your way to "a life, not a career." You make a big committment in education and hard work, you get up to an executive level, and you find that everything is rotting. So you go to work for a non-profit where everyone is "dedicated to the mission" and you find that top management wants you to do as they say, not as they do. I'm going to be very careful about choosing my next "career".”

“I'm with you, pekka - and a lot of others on this thread. Too bad we can't talk over a beer. I think it would be fun.”

“I don't think that the Peter Principle is so powerful that the administrators making these decisions are stupid. I think that they are afraid that if they exercise any discretion, they will be ruined if anything happens at a later date. "HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE SEEN THIS AS AN EARLY WARNING SIGN" They are managing out of fear which is not that inexcusable in our litigious society.”

“Violin, I think you're right, but that just makes it sadder. Did you really summit Everest? Wow!”

“Nah. I was just joshing.”