Down vs Synthetic

“I'm looking for a 3cold seasons bag. fall - spring. That bag is 2 lbs lighter than the 0* synthetic one that was given to me for my b-day from STP, and now I need to exchange it for one that is a bit more suitable to my needs. I don't do much in realy cold temps, and I'm good at beefing up the rating in lots of different ways, so 20 really is an ideal temp for what I'm looking for, I have to have a long cuz I'm 6'3", and this seems to be the best thing they have. I just don't know about the whole "down" thing. I get caught in the rain about 25% of my trips lately and spending the night in a wet bag is miserable enough with out it being a cold wet bag.”

“I wouldn't worry about the rain...its in a stuff sack....in your pack....and you can always stuff it in a trash bag. (not mention a pack cover) I'd be more concerned about condensation but even that is not much....man it up! go down.”

“oh you did NOT just say that! LOL!
I think I'll have to start keepin a camp towel close by in the tent...”

“I'm just a fan of Lafuma...you go ahead and get that Pansy "blue purple" bag if you want to. The teasing will be unmerciful....who are they kidding? That is PURPLE!”

“Well they don't have a 20deg long synth lafuma goddamnit! LOL! I wish they did.
OK, I'm really going. Peace.”

“I thought they did...hmmmm...I will conduct my own research and report back.”

“for starters WHAT is THIS!?
http://www.backcountry.com/store/LAF0006/Lafuma-Warm-n-Light-1000-Sleeping-Bag-20-Degree-Down.html?CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&CMP_SKU=LAF0006&mv_pc=r126”

“Go Western Mountaineering. They are the bestest and very light!!!

LOL @ GNM!”

“That's for one-legged backpackers.”

“now mg has gotten me confused. didn't that first post say he was thinking of down? but his last post says synth? make up your mind then get back with us!

grumble grumble...all that market research for nothing”

“IMHO, down is the only way to go. OTOH, sometimes people have to go with synthetic because down costs too much. So you kind of have to balance your needs with your budget. You can spend 100 bucks or 600 bucks on a down bag - I say spend what you can afford, and then upgrade when you can.

Also, FWIW (did I just use 3 internet acronyms in a single post?!), I bought BowlderSon's backpack through the backcountry.com outfit, and got a fantastic deal, it arrived on time, etc.”

“down bags are lighter, warmer, and last longer. the best synthetic fill is almost as good as the lowest quality down. true down bags are more expensive but they will last much longer. synthetic fill just doesn't take the compress/uncompress cycles as well nor does it wash as well as down.

that's not to say there aren't some fine synthetic fill bags out there. to each their own.”

“I'm down with down.”

“I'm sold on down- I love my down bags.”

“I love down, but you have to keep it dry.”

“Yeah, ya gotta keep it dry - or try, but don't ya do that with any bag?? "Ah, my bag is synthetic, I'll just strap it to the outside of my pack in the rain, a synthetic bag will keep me warm even if it's wet." Makes sense to me...

I put as much effort into keeping a synthetic bag dry as I do my down bag - why the hell would I want a wet sleeping bag.”

“Down if you're not a bed wetter.”

“simer, I guess it depends on the rain you are in . I've been in 40 degrees and drenching, unending rain in AK that made me want synthetic, double wrapped in garbage bags and in a dry bag. You could't keep anything dry. In THAT, I don't use down.”

“This explains Down Fill-Power and Down vs Synthetic
http://www.marmotmountain.com/learn-sleepingbag.htm.pdf

You might want to consider a better fill, 600 fill is why it is so cheap. If you are going to get a 600 fill bag, you might as well go on campmor.com and spend less money.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39173339&memberId=12500226

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39201113&memberId=12500226

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=38505748&memberId=12500226


But, if you are worried about dampness, and can spend more money, get a good down bag with a waterproof shell.



I have a Marmot Couloir 0 Bag and I love it, I bought it last year with a 20% off coupon and my dividend and my tax refund.

Jimmy san is right. I have a down bag that is over 30 years old and still going, my daughter's synthetic bag died in 9 years.”

“"But, if you are worried about dampness, and can spend more money, get a good down bag with a waterproof shell.

Pamela
12:10:06 AM
1/12/08"

Use a tent or tarp to keep water out, not the sleepingbag shell.

A waterproof shell is only for warmer climates, never get a waterproof shell if you expect to spend multiple days below freezing.

In sub freezing temps it is water vapor given off from your body that causes problems.
The vapor rises and then hits the freezing outside air and condenses on or around the outside of your bag. A waterproof shell will ensure that it condenses INSIDE your bag not outside, = soggy down.
A regular nylon shell will have "frost" on the outside, which you brush off before turning the bag inside out to compress all the warm air out. Then invert bag again (outside out) and stuff.

Down rules, for warmth, weight, pack space, and over the long term cost.
Never got my bag soaked with trips in rain-forest, canoes, and cold weather.”

“the thing about a "waterproof" sleeping bag is that a sleeping bag gets wet from both the inside and outside of the bag.

outside sources of water are obvious: rain, dew, condensation, etc.

inside your bag, as you sleep, your body puts out a lot of water vapor. this water vapor has to pass through the inner shell, through the insulation, through the outer shell, and into the outside air. when the weather is too cold the water won't evaporate outside the sleeping bag and gets trapped in the insulation.

so if the outer shell is waterproof the water can't get out and the only way to get it out is to hang the bag inside-out to dry.

yeah, i know... "waterproof breathable"... have you ever tried to breathe through one of these shells (you know, put your mouth up to it and tried to pull air through the fabric)? it ain't that breathable. the pores are quite small and it takes quite a while for the water to evaporate out. these shells work well when the evaporation is gradual and the outside temps are warm, but when the weather gets cold the water won't leave the bag as quickly and builds up on the inside. that's why people use a vapor barrier liner in very cold weather on extended trips.”

“I learned the hard way. On one hiking trip it was cold with freezing rain and sleet. I was in a shelter, but the wind blew the rain straight into it. I had a down bag, so I slipped a trash bag over the end around my feet and legs to keep it from getting wet.
The next morning I woke up and removed the trash bag and a ton of ice came out of it. The whole bottom half of my sleeping bag (where the trash bag covered) had iced over from the condensation created from the inside. I never did that again.”

“ok, y'all missed it. I'm not just returning the bag I got I'm EXCHANGING it for one that is more suitable to my needs. It has to come from Sierra Trading Post. At least that is my understanding on the return paperwork that my sis said she had.

I'd love a WM, or FF 20* down bag that weighs 3oz, but I don't have that kind of play money for a bag, especially when I need other gear just as bad too.

Out of the bags they had listed the one in my first post seemed to fit my needs best. My concern was keeping the damn thing dry when I find myself in a 35 degree downpour during the day, only to have the temps fall to 25 at night and then everything that was wet is now a solid block including that down bag that was in the pack, in the compression bag, or to wake in the morning to find it frozen to the floor of my tent.”

“don't exchange it....sell it on Ebay then you can buy from whoever with your proceeds.

I still don't understand why you think it will be hard to keep dry in your pack during the day? What type of pack do you have? ...a paper sack?
last edited: 1/12/08 1:23:39 PM”

“totally mesh pack. JK. I have a great Gregory top loader pack, but when it rains on you all day long you can't help but get water in your pack. Shlt happens. I guess I've just never used down so I'm a bit scared of switching. How much moisture are we talking about before the down looses it's insulating properties?”

“hmmm....now I've been in some serious rain that would not stop...and by end of the day(s) I was wrinkled up like a prune but never pulled out my gear and it was wet. Are you using a pack cover?

and I was scared when switching to down too...for the exact same reasons...no need to be...face your fear. I'm callin an intervention.”

“The way I see it - if your bag gets wet, you're not going to be comfortable in any way shape or form, so maybe you need to be then switching to other methods of keeping warm.
Get one of the seas-to-summit dry sacks for almost no weight. If you're worried about rain and damp you should be lining your pack with that, or plastic bags at the least.”

“LOL! Will you cry and hold my hand?

The moisture thing happens when you open your pack. Need to filter water? It's raining but ya still gotta open that beach up to get yer stuff out. Food? A clean pair of leather pants? It may be raining but ya still gotta get at the stuff in there. JK ;-)”

“and what kind of bag are you trying to exchange? manuf? style etc? details please
last edited: 1/12/08 1:49:04 PM”

“this one: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/319,78101_Sierra-Designs-0-F-Sleeping-Bag-Ice-Ray-Polarguard-3D-Long.html”

“I have used pack covers a lot and they work ok if it just rains a little or a short time, but in downpours and steady rain for days my stuff always got wet. I found that putting your sleeping bag, clothes and whatever you don't want to get wet in plastic bags inside your pack worked very well.”

“I love down. No problem yet keeping it dry with a good tent. My stuff sack is lined with a trash bag.

My son has a Montbell down bag that he just loves. Great temp rating for the weight.
http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=28&p_id=1121725”

“ok manuka, Jimmy san and mildbill, i stand corrected. mybad. sorry. i apologize.

i myself do not own a waterproof shell down bag, but then i live in CA. it's just that i've heard the water worries so many times now.

my down bag did get wet twice. my husband filled my camelback for me and he didn't close it right. another time one of the Boy Scouts had his nalgene leak into my bag in the back of my truck. both times i squeezed out the water, layed it in the sun and it mostly dried before night. i slept in my microfleece long underwear and wool/acrylic/nylon socks. i was warm enough to fall and stay asleep. i don't think unless your bag falls into a river you really have to worry much.”

“Synthetic is a girlfriend, down is a wife.
(substitute gender as needed)

Synthetic= cheaper, not intended to last forever and keeping it happy is kinda easy. Give it space when not using it, and it will keep you warm on a chilly night. Comes with baggage (weight and compressibility).

Down= nothing casual about down. Spend the money and time and a down bag will be with you forever. Do not in anyway abuse a down bag. Keep it dry, keep it in a special place in your house (and your life) and it will give you years of faithful companionship. It's light and packs tight when you don't need it.

I've spent my time in both and had many a nice night with either fill. A synth bag is "cheap" but if you plan on being out a lot you may find yourself shopping every few years where you wouldn't be looking if you owned a good down bag (ie. the money you saved on your synth bags would have been better spent on a decent down bag).”

“I have never had any problems with my waterproof down bag as long as I don't breathe inside the bag. I have always stayed toasty warm in my 20 degree WM bag in temps down to 10 degrees. I love it! As long as you use the waterproof bag appropriately and don't dress overly warm so you sweat a ton, the bag should be fine”

“Pamela, Honeybunches, the inside moisture thing is only really a problem for multi night below freezing trips.
And as Jimmysan noted you always have the option of sleeping in a plastic bag (vapor barrier)”