Down vs Synthetic

“We haven't had a decent gear debate recently. So who prefers the slaughter of birds over the environmentally damaging use of fossil fuels to fill your sleeping bag?”

“I have a synthetic but my next bag definitely will be down. They're lighter and said to hold heat better.”

“So we have one anti-environmentalist who is switching from fossil fuels to goose killer.

Next....”

“<20F = Down ...for when it's cold & dry

>20F = Synthetic ...for warmer and/or wetter weather”

“I might remind Buddur that water freezes at 32F.

So far he is the weakest link.”

“Is this a gear thread, or an ambush? LOL

I prefer down, but only after I was given a down bag and tried it out did I care.”

“Phil allows others to do his killing for him.”

“I have both and use the synthetic bag most of the time. But then I live in the northwest and wet down is worthless. As to the question of killing geese, they are raised for food and would be killed anyway. Selling down gives poor asian farmers a chance to make a little money.”

“Eric tries to justify his comfort by claiming geese are a natural food source. I bet the only goose Eric ever had was given to him by his Gym teacher.”

“OH! NOW I GET IT! The gear threads are started and discussed on the WEEKENDS!....Kewl! Though I must admit, bacpac is the last threadhead I'd have figured would start one...

P.S., I both kill and pillage the environment....It's ingrained in my very nature.”

“Ruffian was the strongest link in the last round.”

“Down in the winter.
Synthetic in fall & Spring.
Fleese in Summer.”

“I havent tryed down yet but planning on it soon. I have a question.... How many of you take some sort of pillow? or do you just stuff your shirt or something.”

“I take a pillow-- a down vest. One more layer should I need it and a nifty pillow if i don't.”

“I read in one of TNF's old catalogs it takes nine geese to provide enough down for a sleeping bag. I use down year round and in 25 years of backpacking, I've never had a problem with soaked down from moisture or condensation. I don't have a water resistant shell on any of my bags. I just use every means I can think of to keep the bags dry on the trail. At times they've gotten a little moist, but have dried out OK. You'd really have to get them soaked for them to stop working.
I think the durability, stuffed size and light weight of down makes it a better investment than synthetic. I have one summer synthetic bag left and haven't used it in years. I sold my Polarguard winter bag after a few trips because the stuffed size was terrible.”

“i have down envy.”

“What has water's freezing temperature have to do with keeping dry, Mr.pac? Ever hike in freezing rain?

...and you don't have a dog to moisten things up either!”

“...so far you're the dummer link!”

“I slept--or I should say tried to--in a wet down bag once. It is quite wet where I live--at least half of my days out are wet. I've never had a problem with a synthetic bag.

Of course petrol is way less $$ than dead geese.”

“Well I just tried a down bag and loved it. I do live in the east and was worried about the wetness..but did use during rain and had no problems. The down bag slept much warmer.”

“I likes 'em both too. Syntho summer bags for warmer temps down to nearly freezing, and dead geese for below freezing.

Budder I shorely fear bacpac's remark to your last hollar, and not to mention your dawg "to moisten things up" shew..............”

“I have a 1# dead goose bag for summer. WM Highlite.”

“We can always raise more geese. There's way too many of 'em on the golf course anyway. Get rid of those poop makers.

Oil is a bit difficult to produce.”

“Budduh, Your moist relationship with your dog does seem to be an issue. As for freezing rain, get a tent that doesn't leak.”

“I use a 20 degree down bag. This past weekend it got a little wet, pelted by the hail that was being driven into my lean to, but it dried out quickly. It packs up small, doesn't weigh much, and it's warm.”

“I finally got a down bag last year after ten years of synthetic. I can't believe how much lighter and smaller it is.

But I'm temporarily back in the midwest...a little nervous about getting soaked, as my old synth bailed me out of some seriously soggy nights.

PETA will be happy to note that I snared all the geese myself using recycled plastic six-pack containers and then dumping them out of sight/out of mind in the lake where they won't accidentally kill any more birds. Only bad part is I didn't realize how much down lofts, and so killed about 4 times as many geese as I needed. But hey, aren't those rotting carcasses giving the ground much needed nutrients?”

“Buddur had the correct answer in the fourth entry of this thread.”

“MOM: I use my clothing bag if I feel the need for a pillow.”

“I really like my Spotted Owl down bag. It keeps me really warm, much warmer in fact, than my Bald Eagle down bag. The baby seal bag was really great, but it was too heavy. I should be done soon with my California Condor down bag, but it is hard to get the carrion and vermin smell out of the down. Plus, these birds don't have a lot of down, so it really takes a lot of them to make a 20F bag. Hopefully, they'll release some more into the wild soon.”

“Baso4--that's why I love PETA so much! They release them into the wild for you! Then the birds kill themselves because they were released prematurely and have no survival skills (which, by the way, means no carrion and vermon smell. Nice, eh?).”

“Down = a few dead birds.

Synthetic = global warming.

If we use enough synthetic bags in the warm weather we will not need the down bags in the winter.”

“I have a new down bag yet to be used ( REI +5). I use a fleece bag in the summer. A synthethic in spring fall. I owned a down (army surplus) bag for 6 or so years. Used it year round, never got wet. I look forward to a few winter trips this year ( dont forget LeSubtil...Hoist Lks,McCormick Tract or some NCT).”

“they kill the geese? shucks, i wanted to believe they plucked the down and let them go grow some more......
sigh.....
i just received a new , not so karma free TNF blue kazoo down bag for a steal on ebay....so small, so light, so warm, mmmm.....
i am sure tnf plucks and releases.........heh....dont they?....or at least they use geese that have died of natural causes....or maybe they thanked the geese for the down and the food before the slaughter.....(dont wake me up....)
for me, it comes down to wrapping in something natural vs. something natural, altered in a lab........ah...life is one duality after another sometimes.......”

“lol Baso4 & Tommy! Too much.
I normally use my Marlboro synthetic sleeping bag in the summer, paid by smoking over 200 cartons of fine Marlboro Lights, the official ciggarette of backpackers and hikers.

In the winter, I use a special goose down bag. The geese were shot somewhere over Arkansas by the local rednecks who were too stupid to actually find the animals after they were shot. Some smart fella from up north collects the carcasses and uses the feathers for down sleeping bags. You may laugh, but it's actually worse than it sounds, the rednecks that shot the birds were actually at "Deer Camp". They can really grow em' dumb down there.”

“Hmm, I got a Down bag and a Micromesh Bivy a couple of years ago. Now don't go spastic, this down was guaranteed to have been raised on pampered Geese who eventually listened to one too many State of the Union Addresses and commited suicide.
I was amazed that this 35-40 bag worked down to 19F. Bit cool but okay.
I am hooked on down, but I have a Polarguard 3D bag for really wet weather.”

“Y'all are driving me crazy! I just ordered a 20 F Boreal EMS Polarguard 3D and then this thread came on like bad magic. Now I can't decide if I should send it back and get goosedown or keep it. I really hate geese! I would like to think getting wet isn't a worry, since being cold and wet is my least favorite experience in camping. Of course wishful thinking won't make it so. I can't afford an expensive down bag, so I thought a good polarguard was a better choice. Now I don't know.....can you all argue some more please?”

“LOLx20 Lt. Dan - "Now don't go spastic, this down was guaranteed to have been raised on pampered Geese who eventually listened to one too many State of the Union Addresses and commited suicide. "”

“LyndyS, I can't tell you what bag to buy since the type of fill you use is such a personal thing and based on a few different factors too. I do know that a good down bag properly cared for will last much, much longer than any synthetic bag and can actually be cheaper in the long term. I have a well cared for TNF Ibex -15 degree down bag that is 20 years old. It's been used a lot and yet is still very warm, still has 8.5 inches of loft and I expect I will get many more years out of it. I would have gone through several synthetic bags to match the life span of this bag. Down really is very durable.”

“Thanks, RichB, I think I'll send it back and keep shopping. Mary Phyl mentioned getting a good deal on ebay, so I think I'll keep an eye there for a good down bag. It seems a lot of people like the TNF bags. Does anyone want to elaborate?”

“I like to confuse people with the facts...since you asked for it LyndyS, here's more info. The most informative site in many respects, is Feathered Friends. The link to their FAQ's is http://www.featheredfriends.com/fffaq.htm

There are a lot of misconceptions about down bags...I've carried one for years & wouldn't give it up for anything. I agree w RichB on his points...they're FAR more cost effective in the long run.”

“I just picked a Marmot Never Summer 0-10 degrees down sleeping bag from www.killerdeals.com ......on sale!”

“The Geese that gave their down for my bag have been dead for over 20 years. But I would do it again
I have a 5+ degree down bag that is 20+ years old. It was made by Camp7, the bag has out lasted the company that made it. Camp7 went belly up in the 80's. But my bag is still goin' strong.”

“Y'all never spent a wet night in drenched sleeping bag...I can tell!”

“Buddah Bear has been misinformed. We make bear skin sleeping bags in the Ozarks.”

“Don't buy the synthetic hype! Nothing beats down for light weight, warmth, compressibility and value.

You've read too many Backpacker magazine articles.”

“i have a TNF cat's meow (synthetic), that is 30 years old and i still use it all winter. goood bag, yo!”

“Buddur, I made an effort to research tents (two months) before choosing one because I REALLY don't want to sleep in a drenched bag. I have a Kelty V-4 and a Tetragon 8, and the Kelty seems less likely to leak with its' full cover rainfly. A friend told me you can not sleep with your bag up against the edges of the tent or they will get wet, which would happen if all four of us crammed into the V-4 on a stormy night. Is this true in all tents or just less stormproof tents? So far we have been blessed with exceptional weather on our camping trips.

This sleeping bag purchase will mean I have all the gear necessary for my first backpacking trip (without a bear cannister) with the whole family. I've been thinking of going just with my soon to be 9 year old, but am a little afraid as I am new to wilderness camping.”

“try a solo trip first, just to get the feel of it!”

“Isn't it awful that I would rather risk my 9 year old's safety than go solo? I've read all the solo threads here. I lived alone on rare occasions during my life and being alone is something I like to do for small periods of time only. I'll work on it though.”

“LyndyS, under certain conditions of high humidity the coated nylon wall of the inner tent is likely to be moist from condensation and if your bag contacts the wall it is likely to get a little damp there. Another source of moisture is from using a 3/4 length pad and the bag will pick up body moisture underneath the foot section when it contacts the cold tent floor. To minimize this keep some form of insulation underneath the entire bag. Since there is no tent that doesn't experience condensation under the right conditions, you need to use little tricks to deal with it when it occurs. Wipe it up as necessary, keep wet gear out of the tent and give damp air every chance to escape. If you have a a waterproof breathable suit place it between the tent wall and your bag. Also use a tent large enough so condensation won't be as bothersome. Check Hilleberg tents website for an excellent discussion about condensation in tents. Good luck.”