First BPing Trip-AT?

“I am trying to plan a simple overnighter for a first trip. I might be alone or my husband may go depending on lots of things.

I spent the day yesterday (it was raining) on the internet looking into the AT in NJ, NY, PA and VA and looking at local and PA hiking club websites. I am confused, because on the AT in NJ, NY, & CT, there is no dispersed camping. You camp at shelters and designated campsites. Are these campsites packed together? I could not find info about the designated sites online, I would need a book it seems, but I didn't want to buy one until I knew where I was going. But why backpack if you are not going to camp along the trail? Is it because the crowds damage the forest too much? Packing into a shelter with a lot of strangers, even if they are nice, isn't why I go to the woods.

Some parts of PA and VA allow dispersed camping, but they are farther from me. I may choose to go that far anyway. Does anyone have any info that would help me with this? Maybe I have some misconceptions or maybe I should go at a time that is less crowded on the AT.”

“Hey Lyndy,
The sections you're looking at get a lot of use and off-site camping is discouraged. Also, this is the time of year when thru-hikers will be hitting those areas. I've spent nights with as many as 18 people in a shelter. It can get really funky if all have been hiking a day in the rain. I like camping in the woods, myself. I practice LNT and all my gear is green or camo, so I won't be seen if I bend the rules here and there. The shelters are usually riddled with mice - good reason to avoid them.

There are several spots on the AT in Massachusetts where you can camp in the woods, and there is a long stretch in Southern Vermont where that is allowed. It would be a 3 or 4 hour drive to reach these areas from NYC. The thruhikers haven't hit this area in force yet, so you'd just have the normal weekend crowds. Lemme know if you want any info about MA or VT.”

“Just a general comment here--I don't think you can ever waste money buying hiking books. I own several dozen of them. They are good armchair travel daydream guides and they spark ideas.”

“Unless they've changed the rules, you can camp along the trail south of Rt. 23 in NJ down to the Water Gap Rec area with the exception of a stretch near Buttermilk Falls. It's a pretty nice area. I've never gone during the summer but I would expect the nicest sites to be taken. Check the rules but I think you have to be "thru-hiking" which they consider anyone going from point A to point B (no loops or backtacking), 1/2+ mile from road and 200'+ from water or trail. No fires.

AT overview maps here

To buy maps for NY/NJ go to NY/NJ Trail Conf Page (discount with membership)

Pennsylvania is more relaxed and you can have fires in most areas (all state game lands). There are also a few real easy (but ROCKY) 20+ mile ridge walks. Maps at Keystone trails”

“Steiny, I am going to NH-MN the end of August. Maybe I can do my first overnighter on the way up, in Mass or VT? Would that area be crowded with thru-hikers then? I will look up those states. Is there an area you recommend for two days of hiking, one night?

Mary, lol, you should see all the hiking and camping books I've bought and borrowed from the library. I should see if the county library has AT books that my local library doesn't have. Then I'll buy the most useful ones to keep on hand. Most books seem more geared to dayhikes, which is great for my whole family, but not helpful when looking for a longer hike. My older daughter is really getting hooked, but my younger one with the flat feet is a major whiner (at least she's cute).”

“Violin, there are a million trails in PA. I haven't found a good book on PA trails yet. There are a lot of trail associations in PA, and I spent hours looking at their sites as well as the Keystone one you show.
Getting a book on this state is a priority. Ones I saw at Campmor were almost a decade since publishing.

Can you recommend specific trails that you liked? We drove on I-78 past the AT between Harrisburg and Allentown, and the ridge looked like it might make a good hike, but I would like to hear from someone who has hiked that area. South Mountain, close to MD looked like it might be nice too.”

“The ridges on the AT north and south of Port Clinton (near Hamburg) are nice. Closer to Allentown is not as nice.

Buy the Official Trail Conference maps and guidebooks. Make a copy of the topo map for every member of your hiking party.”

“I haven't hiked the section near MD but the guidebook makes it look nice - I'll be doing it one day soon - let me know how it is if you go there.”

“Oh, I forgot, the ATC website was where I read that you could only camp at shelters or designated campsites on the AT in NJ, NY and CT. They did talk about the Buttermilk Falls area, that there was no camping there, designated or otherwise. Also, in NJ off trail means in poison ivy, in my limited experience. If anyone wants to email me with trail recommendations, I'm at lyndi@goes.com. I can't seem to put that in my profile.”

“Okay, thanks Violin, I'll get maps for the AT section south of Hawk Mountain Sanctuary and the South Mountain-Pine Grove Furnace Forest section. I can start with one of these, and then decide about New England later. I haven't actually joined any association yet. Do I want to join the NJ-NY Trail Conf (get discounts) and the ATC? And a PA group? Seems like too much, but I like a lot of information.

Well, thanks for everyone's help. I'll let you all know how it worked out.”

“I had it a little wrong:

"Camping is permitted along the AT in areas more than one-half mile from a road access and 25 feet from any stream or other water source within the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. In NY and NJ outside the Delaware Water Gap NRA, backpacking and camping is allowed only at designated shelters and campsites. Overnight group size is limited to 10 (day hike use is limited to 25).

I meant south of Rt. 206, not 23 - that leaves out High Point and Stokes. You can camp through the Water Gap NRA until you reach Worthington State Forest just north of Sunfish Pond and the Water Gap.”

“If you join the NY/NJ Trail Conf, Campmor will give you 10% the maps. I got one guide for the entire AT through PA (cheaper in the long run).

New England is worth the drive, but you can have fun near home too.”

“Violin, isn't that a very small area? I used to hike to Sunfish all the time as a kid, and it was only a short distance from Rt. 80 before the Gap. How is the hiking between the big Bridge and the Pond? Is it crowded in the summer? Scenic?”

“From Rt. 80 north to, and just beyond, Sunfish Pond is Worthington State Forest - camping only at the single tent site. Very heavily used area. From there up to Stokes is a pretty good stretch. I don't have my maps here but Stokes starts just south of Rt. 206. Good for at least one overnight. If you make night number 2 just north of Worthington, you can make it to Rt. 80 pretty easily the next day.

I camped at an overlook somewhere in that area with 270 degree views. It was one of the nicest sites I've used anywhere.”

“I had purchased the Trail Conf maps for NJ several months ago. There are four maps. They show the location of shelters and park campgrounds, which are the only places you are supposed to camp in Stokes and High Point. The maps also show stars where the good viewpoints are.

The maps show that the AT winds along the river in the Water Gap, crosses the bridge and winds back along the river in NJ before it climbs up to Sunfish Pond. All of this is in the WaterGap Rec Area. The Gap Rec Area is bigger than I thought. I'm going to check it out. Thanks for all the info!”

“I went to the NJ-NY Trail Conf site and clicked on Destination Finder. One choice to click on was Appalachian Trail Database. I clicked on this and it brought me to thebackpacker.com AT Database, lol! Not much info on NJ at that particular site.”

“Lotsa good info here

The Unofficial Appalachian Trail Home Page”

“Violin, I went to the site you listed and found a great thru-hiker journal by Nancy and Bill Stockton of Charlotte.

Stockton Thru Hike 2000

They apparently had a few hikers in their group get sick with Lyme during their thru hike. Lots of detail info there about shelters, towns along the way, etc.”

“Botched that link. Let me try again.

Stockton Thru Hike 2000”

“Lyndy - South Mountain area in MD is nice. I used to go there a lot with my scout troop many years ago. Right on the trail is the first monument built to George Washington - a solid stone shape that looks like an old milk bottle with a stairway up through it.

Mass AT and southern VT will be crawling with thruhikers August into early September. If you go north into VT past Killington you'll lose them all. Most of VT on the Long Trail is point-to-point, but there are some nice loop hikes you can make using side trails. A nice one is the loop from the NFS parking lot at Big Branch, south to Peru Peak on the Old Job Trail, and back to Big Branch on the LT. You'll have your choice of three shelters or camping in the woods. Almost all of the LT in southern VT allows trailside camping. Check out www.greenmountainclub.org for maps and info or email me.”

“If you don't want to deal with shelters and would rather camp along the trail, maybe the Thunder Swamp Trail in the Poconos would work. I never hiked it, but Backpacker magazine had a favorable review of it. The Pinchot Trail is at the foothills of the Poconos and is an easy 26 mile loop. I've hiked that one a few times. Most other trails are in central PA.”

“Thanks, Steiny, I wrote down the loop you mentioned and I'm going to get the maps, because Vermont has been on my hiking list for a long while.”

“RichB, did you ever hike the Loyalsock Trail? That looks like it is in a pretty area.”

“Yes, I have and it's a really nice hike and there are many side hikes too. There's a good loop on the link trail from World's End State Park that I did in April. It's 20 miles, great views, few people and secure parking at World's End.”

“World's End is one of my favorite State Parks in PA. AmyG has hiked the Thunder Swamp Trail and she enjoyed it. When it comes to the AT as long as you get away from Rt 80 you will have more solitude. Head up Old Mine Rd. and hike up to the AT from there. I would definitely stay away from the section just west of the Blue Mountain area due to the extensive Zinc mining that was done in that area. It is void of life. Violin, do you do a lot of your hiking in PA? What part of NJ do you live in? I'm located in the Southern Poconos.”

“Maryphyl, I agree with you about buying hiking books, and dreaming through the pages.”

“Adventurist, LyndyS is in western Morris Cty, Nj, Violin is in Middlesex Cty, Nj, RichB is in Northeast PA (seems to hike the center of the state more). Were you the one who is very familiar with the Dacks, or was that another with adventure in their name? My inlaws have a cottage near Mt. Pocono, in Lk Naomi. Is that close to you?”

“Oh, and SirPete lives near the Poconos, I think, but grew up in Jersey, based on something his sister TXWoodswoman said. We should do a group Loyalsock or South Mountain weekend hike.”

“I also grew up in NJ. I was born in Fort Lee. Prior to moving to PA 2 years ago I lived in Stewartsville, NJ (near Phillipsburg) for about 15 yrs. I was the one that loves the Adirondacks....heading up there Aug 24-26. I can see why RichB hikes in North-Central PA more often then over areas. Just in Tiadaghton State Forest alone there is 200 miles of trails. With all the people in this general area we could easily get atleast a day hike together...maybe early Fall? Harriman-Bear Mountain area or maybe a weekend hike in the Grand Canyon in PA?”

“Sounds great! I haven't been to either, but Ice Tea (Bergen Cty) and M&M (Point Pleasant?) could maybe make Harriman also, but the Grand Canyon of PA sounds intriguing too.”

“I've been out to the Grand Canyon a few times and there's some excellent hiking out there. The Black Forest Trail near there has has I think 17 vistas in 42 miles. It's some of the most rugged terrian in the state. I've hiked most of it, but never completed it in one hike.

A group hike sounds like a good idea and I would be up for it.”

“I lived near the canyon (Wellsboro)for a while as a child but mostly grew up around Towanda. My mom's family is still all there and I believe she will be moved back up there by the end of the summer. World's end was about 40 minutes away (Towanda)and the Loyalsock Creek is one of the prettiest, best swimming hole creeks I have ever come across. and I don't mean where the park has it roped off for swimming. Never did the loop trail but would be interested in getting back up there and doing it with my family.”

“RichB, have you done the west rim trail at the canyon? My grandparents lived 5 miles from the east rim (Leonard Harrison S.P.)”

“Okay, so we should definitely do a group Loyalsock Creek-Worlds End trip. When is good for everyone, look at your calendars, I'll start a new thread for this. Thanks guys!”

“I did some of the West Rim trail, but never the whole thing. The parts I saw I liked and would like to go back and do the whole trail.
Another nice hike near World's End is to make a loop on the Loyalsock Trail down to Angel Falls, Kettle Creek gorge and use some side trails to hike back to Dry Run road. Ketchum Run Gorge is great too a few miles from World's End.”

“if it weren't for all the good stuff in this area, i'd be homesick”

“I did the Rim trail about 1-1/2 yrs ago in the spring. It was a nice soft hike. Planned on 3 days was out in 2. Not a great deal of elevation changes. great views. Went back and canoed the pine creek later in May that was cool!”

“do you know the mileage sir pete?”

“I think it's around 30 miles from Colton Point to Blackwell.”

“Lyndy, you said you didn't know any good PA hiking books - check out the Keystone Trails Assn. website - there is a book called Pennsylvania Hiking Trails that has general and specific info on most of the trails in the state. It is a bit overwhelming at first, but there is good info there. Also, Tom Thwaites 50 Hikes books (one each for eastern, central and western PA) have both dayhikes and backpack trips. The KTA site will also direct you to where to purchase guides on all of the major trails in PA. Because each club publishes its own guide, it is easier to purchase them through KTA than to join each club in order to get their guide (though you can get some good current info on the trails that way that you may not get otherwise.) We did that when we moved to PA about 10 years ago. The KTA website is http://www.pennaweb.com/kta/

Another resource for AT hikers is the ALDHA Companion, which has information about all of the AT. There is an on-line version of it at http://www.aldha.org/

If you live in NJ, the nearest good overnight trail in PA is the Pinchot Trail. The AT in NJ goes through a lot of farmland, which may not be what you're looking for for a first overnight trip. NJ has the problem, at least near Del. Water Gap of very active bears, who are well habituated to stealing backpacker's food.

The AT in NY through Harriman/Bear Mountain was good though. The Catskills also have some really nice hiking, though probably quite crowded this time of year.

Vermont has some really challenging trail - lots of wet rocks and roots - but there is lots of water to swim in and many shelters, if you want the AT shelter experience. If you want to camp under the stars, PA is a much better bet. And the farther you go from NJ, the more remote and 'wild' the trails get. We have been on some of the long trails in mid-summer and not seen another hiker for 3 or 4 days.”

“Thanks, Ginny. It's been a long time since you've posted. Did you have a Lyme problem, or a false alarm? It would be nice if you could join the group hike in the PA Grand Canyon. We haven't picked a weekend yet, waiting for everyone's input. See the World's End Loyalsock thread (we changed to the canyon).”

“The Pinchot Trail was mentioned by RichB also. I didn't spot it on the map, but when I get the guidebooks and maps mentioned, then I'm sure I'll find it. The Keystone site is great, but I've spent hours looking at sections of it. I have this list of hikes now, on a word document.

Loyalsock loop, PA
South Mountain (Michaux St Forest?)PA
Pinchot Trail PA
Long Trail VT
Thunder Swamp Trail PA
Grand Canyon PA
and half of Virginia,the Catskills and Adirondacks”

“Found the Pinchot Trail on a different map. It is only ten miles from my inlaw's cottage in Poconos. Very convenient to drop kids off with them and go hiking this summer! Thunder Swamp is alot farther because there are no direct highways from cottage. Easier to go there direct from home. Thanks everyone!”

“The highbush blueberries are really abundant on the Pinchot trail. I live only 13 miles from this trail and go up every year when the berries are ripe. I took a ride up there on my motorcycle tonight and the berries aren't quite ready yet, but it's going to be a good year with all the rain we had lately.”

“Sorry, for not getting back sooner. I read the forum a couple of days a week, but don't post all that often. Usually by the time I read a subject, there are already forty posts on it, so I don't bother. Yes - the Lyme seems to have been a false alarm - no rash, no other symptoms, just one hungry deer tick.”

“Great, Ginny! And RichB, I'll bring a container to put some blueberries in when I get there. If I have some energy to pick them. I had been hiking with a 20 lb pack before June, then got busy with end of schoolyear and vacation. I was beat last night after starting training again.”

“I got a 50 Hikes In Eastern PA book and it has info on Pinchot and Turkey Swamp, broken into smaller loops, it looks . I am going to start with some day hikes there and get to know the areas before staying overnight. I would appreciate some bear advice, though. Do those of you who pack in eastern PA, do you hang your food, carry a plastic cache or what?”

“I just hang my food and I've never had a problem with animals stealing it.
Once I left some food in my pack overnight and a mouse chewed 3 holes in my pack before he got to my food and then he helped himself to my energy bars. Never left food in my pack again. Also, I was using a tarp on one bicycle trip and it was stretched out over the forest floor one night since I slept under the stars because it wasn't going to rain. When I got up in the morning my tarp must have been over a mouse hole and there were 22 holes chewed in it. A good lesson, aways hang your tarp up or fold it away in your pack.

A nice day loop on the Pinchot Trail is the Choke Creek Nature trail in the eastern part of the forest. Take Tannery road before you come to the Manny Gorden picnic area and you can't miss it. There's even a compass course on the way out if your into that type of thing. The western half has an observation deck at the top of Pine hill about 3 miles up from the trail head that has a nice view. You can grab a map at the register box a couple hundred feet up the trail from the trail head or stop at the district office near the picnic area.”

“Thanks RichB. I've been busy. I mowed the lawn, cleaned my house, went up to PA and cleaned my in-law's cottage (they''ll be up soon), and then took the family out hunting for the Pinchot Trail. Went west on 940, north to Thornhurst, right on 2013, left on 2016 and right into the forest. Was 11 miles. It was late so we didn't try to hike far. The trail register had no maps and a lot of sawdust (bugs).

Went in to the start of the loop. Four cars at trailhead but never saw anyone. No bears too. My older daughter (Ti) was totally psyched. She wanted to go in further to the creek and camp but we told we didn't have all our stuff with us. We might leave the six yr old (Li) with the inlaws one night while we backpack. I've taken her to orthopedic doctors and she has inserts, but she still complains that her legs hurt after short distances. She sees what her sister can do and gets totally frustrated. But we'll keep working on it.

I had repacked my pack, and even though it was heavier, it was much more comfortable. I hiked with it no problem, and will keep it the same, just add more water to increase the weight as I train.

I picked a few handfulls of blueberries. Fresh muffins after church! I also got a bunch of books from the libraries and some of them I will order from the PATC and KTA, which I joined. I like the NOLS Wilderness Book and the 50 Hikes in PA books.”

“MICE and other varmits!

10,000 feet up on Rainier, who would've worried. Exhausted after the hike, setting up the tent in howling wind, I just crashed into my bag with stuff strewn all over the tent floor. Got up in the morning to find a mouse hole directly under my gorp bag, a neat little hole in the bag, and every M&M gone!

Other than grizzlies out west, which I had in my car and in my tent, the worst I've ever seen were the red squirrels on Isle au Haut. After numerous attempts at bagging and hanging (the little bastards could walk fishline and chew through multiple layers of nylon, foil, and plastic) I ended up carrying our last two days food with me on day hikes just to make sure we had some left.

And to rub it in, they would spend their days perched on the shelter roof, laughing at us and throwing pine cones!”