Klamath Basin Water Feud

“Folks 'Round Klamath Water Basin have recently opened, BY FORCE, the outlets closed by the BLM to protect a few endangered species in the midst of a drought. 150,000 people are effected by the drought, where crops are dying due to lack of water. Hence the debate, at what point does protecting an endangered species have to give way to protecting humans? I have a few personal thoughts on the matter, but thought this was a topic ripe for debate on TT.”

“I was going to bring this up some time ago. The hard issue is that the goverment devloped this area 100 years ago with water diversion, dikes, etc. to get people to settle and farm the area with the promise of water.

So in a way they have a right to that water.

It's a very tough issue with no easy answers.

I do however side with the farmers if for only one reason. If I was in their shoes I'd be pissed off too.”

“Water is the real environmental crisis.

Fuel schmuel.”

“Where can I find more info on this? I haven't heard anything on it.”

“Here's a feature that aired on NPR, just click on "Klamath River" when you get there:

http://www.loe.org/archives/010608.htm#feature11

My take is this: the fish have no other choice, the people do. Don't get me wrong, I feel for those people and respect them a great deal and yeah, the gov't screwed up and perhaps gave out false promises, but shoot, just because we have a water "right" from uncle sam doesn't mean mother nature will cooperate. If you live in a floodplain, be prepared to lose your home. If you work in the oil business, be prepared for the oil to run dry. If you live near a volcano, be prepared to be covered in lava and ashes. I mean, what good is living off the land if we destroy that land? Now, I fully heartedly believe in some sort of assistance for these folks until the seasons cooperate and bring more water. No need to leave em' high and dry.. no pun intended..”

“It takes a crisis to find out just how valuable water resources are. I don't know enough about the details in the Klamath water fight.
I do know that in my area water resources are being squandered by greedy companies and crooked politics. Watershed land that was left to protect and recharge reservoirs is being sold off and developed with absolutely no thought to what will happen to the reservoirs once the land is lost. They've taken reservoirs out of service and developed the land and then cry when a drought hits and there's no water. I think the grand plan is to make people drink the sewer water from the river down below. Greed is destroying the environment around here.”

“Goofy foot, Very good take on the subject.”

“Just spent 5 days in Klamath Falls in late June visiting my sister and father. There were protests going on all over the place. I read the local paper and talked to a lot of people we visited.

People I talked to (not farmers) thought that there was a lot of bad science going on. The estimates of the peril to the sucker fish were probably exaggerated. Also, the impact of using some Klamath Lake water for irrigation was probably overstated. The environmentalists don't seem to care about the farmers, which seemed to gore a lot of people. Also, the impact on the whole community was being minimized. Many farmers feel allienated that their water rights were renegged on.

Went out on Klamath Lake for a riverboat cruise. Klamath Lake is the largest non-man-made lake west of the Mississippi. The lake was up to the brim. Seemed to me that using a little of it during this crisis made sense.

Washington, Oregon, and Northern CA are all in a drought. It is bad news. Water rights are not based on any uniform system of allocation. Sad thing is that there is very little going on for conservation because water was always plentiful.

My $.02”

“"Seemed to me that using a little of it during this crisis made sense." - Phil

Given the history of water in the West, I would be wary of giving anything if I lived on a big ole' lake. They take a little bit here and a little there and - suddenly - you have no lake.

We are wrestling with that issue here in the Great Lakes. Currently, any Great Lakes governor can veto any out-of-watershed diversion. But there is concern that this might not stand up to pressure on the resource.

If it were up to me, the water would stay right where it is.”

“Could, Should, Would...these and $3.00 will buy a decent cup of coffee....what I see to be the issue when cut to the bone, "What do we do NOW given the circumstances NOW, while protecting the interests of BOTH the people and the Fish?

The people take the side of the PEOPLE.

BLM takes the side of the FISH, and by default the LAW.

What would solve the problem for BOTH? I note the historical reasons for the construction of the lake in the first place, and the SUBSEQUENT laws passed to protect the species...

One of my favorite quotes, made by MOI, is:

"Sometimes you have to create a problem to solve one."

Meaning?: It is too easy to sit back and say, "Thats the law" and rest easily. It is also easy to say "WE were here first"...

I believe that this issue begs for the application of my quote...

"Create a problem"...the farmers have begun, the BLM has begun to respond...and the issue was published in Yesterdays USA today...

Result?: increased public awareness of the situation...when the public eye is focused on a problem, THAT is when the two sides involved begin to address BOTH sides of the issue...

We relocate other species to protect and propagate, we can do more than protect ONE location where these species reside. Collect and relocate...

The dust bowl required farmers learn new methods, plant new crops and learn crop rotation techniques, Specialized farming is a really bad idea in this age, diversify the crops, so you don't lose everything if the bottom drops out of the market for one commodity.

both sides have to relearn how to do business with the common goal of achieving the common good. and, if it takes "Creating a problem" to solve one, create it...”

“I think the residents of Salt Lake will be mighty offended when they discover Klamath Lake is the largest non-man-made lake west of the Mississippi. And to split hairs, people in Montana claim that Flathead Lake is the largest freshwater lake west of the Mississippi.

Now there's a real problem!”

“It is real easy to pontificate from miles away. Yes, sometimes it takes a crisis to get people to make changes. For example, the 7 year drought in Southern California during the 80s really increased conservation and development of more groundwater storage. Consequently we use a very low amount of water per capita.

Why not use a little water from the lake to save the farmers and begin a conservation program for the future? There is no compelling scientific evidence that this will hurt the sucker fish or the lake.

Our government in action...serving the people.”

“The fish have survived droughts like this before.

The farmers won't survive.

If bush really wants to do somethingto shore up his environmental image he could start by rewriting and updating the Endangered Species Act.”

“Sorry, Phil. I think I went a little overboard.

You just touched a raw nerve with me. Any diversion sets a precedent. It's easier to divert the next time.

BTW, I flew over Washington, Idaho, Montana, etc. on my way back from Seattle. The land is incredibly brown. You can see the little irrigation circles in the fields. I think any diversion of water is not likely to make much difference in the great scheme of things. What everyone really needs is rain.

It's funny, though. Aren't suckers just carp?”

“Reuters Reported today that the fed has agreed to release water to the farmers....”

“To little, to late”