Water Quality

“On my recent excursion to Mt. Baker, I watched a guy in our group wander over to our water source (an outlet stream from the Coleman Glacier) and pee in it.

At first I couldn't believe it, I thought I must be mistaken, but I saw him turn around and zip his pants up. We were drawing water a few yards upstream of where he let it fly, but there were a lot of people probably using the same stream downstream.

Later I casually mentioned that he shouldn't relieve himself so close to a water source, but had I known him better (I'd only met the guy that morning) I would have kicked him in the ass while he was still peeing!

Have you ever seen this kinda stuff happen? How would you have handled this situation?”

“Pee in his Nalgene bottle when he isn't looking.

He obviously didn't know better. Good thing you mentioned it. How did he respond when you mentioned he shouldn't do that?”

“He just got a sort of sheepish look on his face and said, "K". You're right, he didn't know better, but geeeeeez.”

“Know him or not, I'd have yelled, "Hey @$$hole, quit pi$$ing in the stream you idiot." That's the type of person who needs it drilled into their head with a good hoppin' mad rant. Inexcusable.”

“Sorry kleetn, I will never do it again.”

“pekka, Folks around here don't like it when you use that tone.”

“I miss the old bacpac.”

“Kleety, feel free to continue to use me as your liberal punching bag. Compassionate conservatism has reformed me.”

“bacpac, then they must be stream pi$$ers, too, who feel guilty about their past sanitary sins and other backwoods transgressions, LOL...or should I LOL? Don't get too mushy on us bacpac.

BTW, another retribution would be to knock this guy out, ship him to the middle of China and not warn him that, basically, the whole country pees and $hit$ in its water. After he drinks a little from the tap he will soon understand why you don't pi$$ in the water.”

“My friends have yelled at me many times for embaressing(sp?) them by telling total strangers when they do dumb stuff in the places that I love. One thing I've never been accused of is being shy.

Many times I've hiked past newbie repelers making a safety error and pointed it out. Sometimes they say thanks and ask my advise. Sometimes they suggest that I Fself. Atleast when I walk away I don't have to feel guilty if they kill themselves later.

Most recently they got upset when I told a couple teenagers that if they really have to smoke weed on the disc golf course at least go over the hill where the pee-wee kids couldn't see them. Was I out of line?”

“That's nothing kleetn. One time I saw God on a hillside, pissing a stream of clear white light. It crashed against the rocks and shattered into shards like tinted glass: seven colors of the spectrum ringing seven perfect tones cascading downward; a spill of colored beads skittering bebop phrases in the key of C.”

“I haven't seen that, but me and another guy were walking by a campsite to the water source and this kid had his asss hanging over a log, which was right in their camp, and he was taking a dump. Very unpleasant and totally disgusting to have in the campsite.”

“I think I'll keep packing my camp chair.”

“I second Pekka's first post.

We once had I guy take a crap up stream of the spring we drinking from. I saw him coming down the hill carrying a roll of T.P. I said; Please tell me you didn't do what I think you did.
The rest of us proceded to give him a hard time for being a dumbass.”

“I think I'll start carrying gallons of water.”

“Calnatv, I sure hope you guys changed your water source. Enough peer pressure on the guy and you coulda made him head back up there with a baggie and pack it out.

Chief, those were some lucky people who got that campsite next, eh? SOOOPRISE, SOOOPRISE!”

“2 weeks ago, I was flyfishing a beautiful small stream a few miles from my house. There's an old railroad grade that cuts through the same valley as the stream so it's common for ATV's to gain access too.
As I fished upstream I was sickened to see a hemlock grove totally trashed by ATV idiots. They tore up the soil next to some old growth hemlocks. Apparently, they must have camped there too because there was a fire ring filled with half burned trash on the side of the stream bed just waiting for the first high water to wash it in the stream. There were empty propane tanks on the ground, beer cans thrown around along with all kinds of trash. They're were a few naked turds a few feet from the water's edge and toilet paper on the ground. They even left 2 rolls of unused toilet paper on the ground. I never saw anything as bad as this scene in my 30 years of walking around these woods. I can't believe the kind of people that are out there today. It's really sad, but with more ATV's around and their capabilities to load them up with junk, it's becoming more common place. Wherever they go litter seems to follow and they have no respect for anyone or anything. These things have to go and here in PA we just started a new law to restrict them.”

“I kinda made it a habit to clean up the spot where I am fishing. Gather up all the misc. worm cartons in a grocery bag, pop cans in the recycle bin at home, if there is a fire ring,burn up the paper stuff, the toughest is when you come up on a really good fishing spot and there is a whole case of Bud bottles tossed every where and you have nothing to carry them out in. I can't enjoy myself siting in a trash pile. The next guy at the spot will have a much better experience. Most of the time there is a plastic grocery bag laying there too so I fill it up.”

“These stories are awful!

I don't like over-regulation, but it is starting to seem like a wilderness license should be required, including tests, just like a drivers license, to try to at least ensure that people are exposed to the LNT ethics and low-impact camping idealogy before they venture out into the protected forests and wildernesses. Besides showing crash victims in highschool drivers ed, they can show turds floating in a stream with a few dead fish and a boarded up water well near a cute farmhouse showing a poison warning.

An ever-increasing population seems to require ever-increasing regulation. It's a bit depressing.”

“I was talking to my sister this evening. She is the one who works for the Forest Svc. The head honcho in Arkansas decided to enforce the no ATV off road in the National Forest Rule. They passed out a ton of literature and gave the Enforcement folks the green light to issue citations after the July 4th weekend.

The local rednecks are writing Senators and Congressmen to have this guy canned. I will try to get an address or email and post it here so we can voice support for such reasonable decision.”

“bacpac - I believe in your cause above, but are you sure those rednecks actually wrote something, or did they get educated people to write for them.

I have to priase a fellow TT'r in regards to this matter. This weekend on our dayhike, I passed quite a few used waterbottles and variuos trash on the trail we were hiking. Tarabull and her beau went out of their way to pick up quite a bit of it, and pack it out. I can say that I hate litter and the people we were hiking with were enviromental freindly, but she made that extra effort. I think she's an example, and maybe that guy pissing in the river deserved a kick in the ass (he's probably never go hiking again- and good riddance).”

“several years ago, when i lived in nyc, i took a trip to bear mountain (hudson river valley just outside west point, at trail passes here) with my then-girlfriend. we wandered off the main path, and found piles of garbage in a beautiful hillside meadow! we scavanged several big bags from the "dump" and proceeded to fill them and carry them out to the nearest dumpster(all of 800 yards).

crap like this makes my ears smoke, but it is the type of battle that has to be fought one person at a time. unfortunately, i never saw the (many) transgressors, but when you do, speak loud and clear. DON'T PIMP THE ENVIRONMENT!”

“After all, wouldn't it be a bit oxymoronic to worry about the "sensitivity" of someone peeing in a stream or trashing a meadow? Take that bear/signal whistle you are wearing, blow it loud and call the foul!”

“I read a story in the paper yesterday about a pirhanna-like fish in a river in New Guinea that has followed wading fishermen's urine streams to the source and bitten off thier tally-wackers !

Perhaps we could get these fish imported?”

“no, violin. those fish are nastier. they follow the urine, then swim INSIDE the doogan. at that point, they use sharp barbs to lock themselves in place, while they feed.”

“After two summers of ridgerunning the AT, three of maintaining a local trail, and thirty years of living on a dead end woods road regularly used by ATVs, I've come up with following:

Steiny's Law of Wilderness Trash

The amount of trash that an individual will take back out of the woods is inversely proportional to the distance they hiked in or to the horsepower that got them there.

Steiny's Second Law of Wilderness Trash

People who litter the woods invariably drink cheap,lousy beer.

Any additions?”

“Those would be good too but these were like a piranha or pacu and were imported as a food source.

They said their John Thomas was bitten off and they lost a lot of blood.”

“Lol Steiny!

How bout' people that litter the woods main goal in life is to be a guest on the Jerry Springer Show.”

“steiny, you are on the money about the ammount of trash left behind being inversely proportional to the distance from the nearest road.

Most of the beer cans and bottles I clean up in the San Bernardino NF are Bud, Miller, and Corona instead of the bargain stuff. I don't know where the local cheap beer drinkers are leaving their trash.

I know this isn't related to polluting water sources, but glass beer bottles are a major pet-peeve of mine. It is almost impossible to clean up all the broken glass.”

“I had a managing editor once who got tired of litterers. He sent me out to the county road that was a main route to a major local employer as well as a popular local byway; I collected all the trash in a quarter mile, brought it back to the paper's offices and catalogued it piece by piece. I even found a live snake in one beer bottle. Beer containers were the top item, and he had me break it down by brands. Then he had me take a photo of one of the most prevelent cans, which was PBR. He ran it on page one with the heading: Number One with Area Slobs. Boy you should have heard the scream from the PBR distributor after that hit the stands, LOL.”

“The cheap drinkers cash in their cans for cash don't they?”

“bp - One day last year, in addition to the two garbage bags of broken glass and smashed cans I hauled off my trail, I took out almost $8 worth of redeemables. Mostly left by teenagers who get the stuff illegally and can't redeem them.”

“Going for hikes with kids and making kind of a game out of collecting cans is fun..kinda like mushroom hunting.”

“What'll ya have?
”

“When I did the story on littering, Michigan was just thinking about the deposit law. My boss was fueling the fire on that. The deposit law really cleaned up Michigan roadsides and other places. Here in Wisconsin, the beer makers are too powerful (though deposits have not hurt Michigan sales) so we only have recycling programs, for which the new Governor and the GOP assembly is trying to cut funds. Our newly proposed state budget will also allow billboard companies and other sign owners to cut trees in public right of ways without getting a permit first from the DNR, with the goal of letting motorists see their signs for 10 seconds instead of 6 seconds. Jeeesshh, what whores we have in Madison. Both the Dems and the GOP let that through.”

“Years ago, a bottle bill got shot down here in PA. We need one desperately, unless people start throwing their bottles and cans in the recycling bin, instead of the roadside.”

“We're trying to amend our bottle bill here in Mi to include water etc. It's funny, all you see now on the roadsides is water bottles. You'd think someone health conscious enough to drink water would be more litter conscious.”

“The Gospel Hump Wilderness in northcentral Idaho is littered with Keystone Light cans. It is truly the swill of scum in this area. My son and I have packed out bags of them.

Unfortunately I have seen people purposely litter just to "piss off the stupid nature freaks." I guess that would be us. What do we do with people like that?”

“Just let the garbage lay in New Hampshire. Here's a law governing the White Mountain Nat. Forest:

If a person is caught raking the beaches, picking up litter, hauling away trash, building a bench for the park, or many other kind things without a permit, he/she may be fined $150 for "maintaining the national forest without a permit".”

“Violin; you need to put that on the stupid law thread. That is frickin' funny.

I can see it now...Hey you !! Freeze! Drop the litter slowly and step away from it.”

“This thread has inspired me to go out and pick up all the litter along the trail I day hike 3x a week. Now if I see somebody littering on it, I'll get to kick em' in the a$$!”

“It's inspired me to foul a water source.”