More bad news for bears

“This in my local paper this morning. Anybody around here who stores birdseed on a porch is an idiot!

Bears pay price for damage in Charlemont, Shelburne

CHARLEMONT - Two black bears - one rummaging on a porch for birdseed and
another destroying beehives - were shot within less than 24 hours Tuesday
and Wednesday, capping a month of conflicts between humans and bears in the area.

In the first incident in Franklin County this week, a homeowner in
Charlemont blasted a 6-foot, 300-pound black bear that was ripping up his
front porch just after 9 p.m. Tuesday.

Joseph Wagner said Wednesday that he fired the first shot at the huge black
bear as it was tearing through a heavy aluminum box on his front porch to
get at a bag of birdseed that was hidden inside.

''It had tossed everything off the porch trying to get at that seed,'' he
said, pointing to the devastation at the front of his house. He said that,
after the first shot, he fired again as the bear ran into the yard and then
four more times as it fled toward the woods.

''I had put six rounds into him and he fell down a couple of times, but he
got up and kept running. He was headed into the woods there,'' Wagner said,
pointing at some blood-spattered foliage. ''But it was dark out and I could barely see. I fired one more round at the shape and then went back to the house for three more rounds,'' he said.

By the time Wagner got back to where he last saw the bear, the large creature had collapsed, just inside the tree line.

The bear, when measured from the tip of his snout to the edge of his rear
paw is 82 inches in length, and wildlife officials estimate his weight at 300 pounds.

''If he stood up on his rear paws, he would have been 6 feet tall,'' said
Sgt. David Rich of the state Environmental Police.

According to Wagner, the first indication that he got that the bear was on his porch was when his Doberman pinscher came running into the house and hid in the bathroom.

''We had a bear on the side porch just about a week ago,'' he said.

In the second bear shooting, which took place around noon on Wednesday, the
owners of Apex Orchards in Shelburne were forced to shoot a young male black
bear that was destroying their beehives.

''That's been happening a lot around here, too. On July third or fourth,
there were a bunch of beehives that were destroyed up on Legate Hill Road,''
Rich said.”

“it's the "bad news bears"!”

“Maybe they should relocate and educate the people involved instead of shooting the bears.”

“There is really too much detail in that bear shooting. Makes me want to cry.

If ya don't like the bears in your yard, move.”

“We lost lupus & oglive! I am tired of people shootin' my kin!”

“What a jerk! It is obvious that one shot was enough. He said the bear fled after the first shot. He should have let him go. It didn?t sound like the bear was attacking him at any time during the incident. He can?t claim self defense. You can?t blame the bear it was just doing what is natural: getting food. Odds are the bear would have never returned. Shooting an animal because you are scared (or you?re a macho redneck) is not a legitimate reason to kill an animal. I?m a hunter but I never shoot for sport, only for food. When I have meat in the freezer I stop. It is guys like this that give anti-hunter groups and anti-gun groups the fuel they need to support their cause. Being scared or shooting for sport is not a reason to kill any animal. Self defense: yes”

“why are they allowed to defend "their" territory, but we are not allowed to defend "ours"? we are all animals.

we squash roaches for being in out house, swat flies, trap mice.

give up this holier-than-thou, pc bullsh!t.”

“while i'm out backpacking, i'd like to ask that bears not maul me.

if i indvertantly walk into their territory, they should tranquilize me and relocate me.

i will groggily wake up, with a tag hanging from my ear.

THAT's the way it should be, from now on.”

“Rad - Are you serious? Roaches, rats and flies are not a species on the edge of destruction. If they were, I'd sh!t with the flies anytime.”

“they currently do not have hunting seasons for species that are "on the edge of destruction".

there happen to be quite a few bears around here!

want some?”

“I think that after the first shot the man had clearly "defended his territory" and the bear acknowledged his deafeat by running off.
The mans actions were the same as if he told someone "raise your hands or I'll shoot" and then shoot them after his hands were up. I just feel like the bear's death in this case was uncalled for. If the bear had turned and attcked instead of running then maybe the excessive shooting would have been warranted.”

“rabbitman, What are you saying? The guy should have let a wounded bear go?

If they don't drop you shoot them again. The idea was to kill the bear. Killing a bear who has lost its fear of humans is the only reasonable solution.”

“"Eliminating" bears that have become accustomed to feeding on commercial bee hives I can understand. We have enough trouble getting crops pollenated due the inadvertant damage that insecticides have done to the honey bee population.

Of course we humans created both problems and it sucks that the bears pay the price. Such is the price we pay to live in an industrial society.

The birdseed guy should be fined VERY heavily...at the least.”

“It sounds like he had the birdseed locked up. It is unlikely the bear would have stopped at the birdseed. The bear would have been back trying to get to the food in the house.”

“Maybe the bear wasn't wounded. Maybe he missed with that first shot. The story wasn't clear whether he hit it on the first shot. If the bear had lost his fear of humans I'm sure he got some of it back that night and it wasn't just a case of "I've suddenly got an urge to be in another room" that caused him to run.”

“Maybe it wasn't a bear at all?”

“Maybe he was trying to shoot the Doberman Pinscher for running into the house and hiding in the bathroom, and accidently hit the bear therefore causing the whole problem to begin with. However I do agree with you letting a wounded bear run loose is not a very good idea.”

“Ya take your gun, point it up in the air, away from your trailer, and shoot. The bear gets scared and runs. Then you take your birdseed and put it away. If the bear comes back, with no food outside, go and shoot yourself a rug, but not the first time!”

“We have hunting seasons for bears. Shooting one off your front porch doesn't sound like tha big a deal.”

“Isn't baiting bears with birdseed illegal anyway?”

“Rabbitman

You F'en stupid hypocritical jerk.

I've got many issues with your post.

"What a jerk! It is obvious that one shot was enough. He said the bear fled after the first shot. He should have let him go. " So what then" Let the bear wonder off to die slowly and painfully alone in the woods? Gee that's so nice of you.

"I?m a hunter but I never shoot for sport, only for food. When I have meat in the freezer I stop" You are such a two faced moron. Hunting is a SPORT!!! You don't have to hunt to survive. Just jump in the car, run down to the Grocery and buy some stakes. If the Guy who shot the bear, kept it for the meat, would that have been ok then? After all it would be doing exactly what you do. Oh wait no, he didn't go stalking into the woods looking for something to kill. The Bear found him and started to destroy valuable property, that sounds like self defense. If the dog was able to get in from the porch to hide in the house, I bet the Bear could have too.

"Shooting an animal because you are scared (or you?re a macho redneck) is not a legitimate reason to kill an animal" so which are you when you go hunting. Scared or a redneck? You must be one of the two... After all you said hunting is not a sport, and you obviously don't have to hunt to survive... and yet you kill...

"It is guys like this that give anti-hunter groups and anti-gun groups the fuel they need to support their cause." No Rabbitman it's guys like you that give us hunters a bad name.

You need to take a look at your stand on the hunting issue. You sound like a gun control nut to me.”

“SlapMy?..

If you feel I?m a jerk that?s fine. That?s your opinion you are entitled to it. I have opinions of you also. I just hope most of them are wrong.

A shot fired in the air like Buddah said would have probably scared him off. It wouldn?t have hurt to try that first.

How I put food on my table is my business. No I don?t have to ?hunt? to survive but I have to eat and to eat I have to have food and to get food I go to the store or the woods. If you feel hunting is a sport that?s your opinion. But that would also make going to the grocery store a sport also. And I guess that meat you get at the store is born dead so they just package it up and sell it to all of us scared macho rednecks. If you have ever been to a slaughter house and watch them process meat you might start hunting also.
But since you feel getting food by ?sport? is wrong I guess maybe we should all just starve to death.

?If the guy that shot the bear kept it for meat, would that have been ok then??
No that would be poaching! I doubt that many states have night time bear hunting. Most have strict guidelines on when and how you can get game, you don?t get to make your own rules.

God put animals on this earth to provide food for man and guess what? That includes me. You don?t get to decide where my food comes from.
I get all of my wild game legally per my states hunting regulations. Just like I go to the grocery store and legally by my groceries.
As for my gun, you are welcome to come and try to take it any time you like. Yes I'm a gun control nut, I control my own gun.

That?s my opinion SlapMy?. And I hope you value it as much as I do yours.

Have a good day!”

“Backoff Rabbitman

I do hunt. I do take my game to the butcher / packing house.

I'm not the one who was ranting that killing the bear was wrong.

Hunting is a licensed sport. You don't think so? Check it out in your state's laws.

Protecting ones home and possessions is not poaching. Look that up in your state's regs while you are at it.

Oh and you may want to re-read my post. This time take out the personal insults (if you can) I'm sorry about those. But you do have a skewed view of what hunting vs home protection is.”

“Looks like it might be time for the Official Scorekeeper to rule on this one, LOL.”

“Well who knows. Maybe a shot in the air would be right. Then try to get someone to remove the bear because it will come back. Once it finds food there it will return. We are having that problem here. But they are getting into garbage cans. People are not used to bears in this area but they have came and set up house so everyone will have to change their habits if they don't want bear problems. Education is the key.”

“It is estimated that there are over 1500 bears in Massachusetts west of the Connecticut River. It's still largely a sparsely populated area, but people are making inroads to bear habitat, and the bears are adapting to their new conditions. The bears know where all the state park dumpsters are, they routinely visit back porches, stealing garbage, bird feeders, pies cooling on the window. There's a story in the paper most every week regarding a man- bear encounter: most of them don't end as badly as this one did.

I know all the principals involved. Joe is an outdoor person, he has worked at state parks; he should have known better than to leave birdseed out on the porch and he should've tried a warning shot first. Sometimes, though, he has a little trouble putting 2 and 2 together. In this case, it cost a bear its life.

There is a hunting season for bear here, and there are rules to follow. Dave is a gung-ho EPO - if there are charges that can be filed in this case, he will make sure it happens. He once got a guy on three-year old moose-poaching charges by using the moose's DNA! Unfortunately, stupidity still isn't a crime.”

“SlapMy?..

I?ll start out by apologizing because I have apparently offended you in some way and that certainly was not my intent. It is obvious that our opinions of ?sport? vary. I just don?t kill game for any other reason than for food (that?s not ?my? definition of sport). If the animal was causing physical harm or attempting to harm a human I could shoot it for that reason. These are my personal beliefs and I certainly don?t want to force them on anyone else. I?m sorry if I came across that way. If the animal was destroying something I own then, that is something I could replace. When I?m hiking and there is a poisonous snake coiled up on the trail I go around. I don?t kill it. If a mouse is eating food in my pack, I scare it off and move my pack but I don?t kill it. Now if they started to attack me I would defend myself. I don?t think that is two-faced. I was just trying to say ?In my opinion shooting it shouldn?t have his first choice.? Once again I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else, that was not my intent.”

“Plenty of misunderstandings all around. Guilty as charged. I should have asked you to clarify your position before I attacked you.

Let me have a moment while I put my soap box away, and eat ummm crow.

Rabbitman, I'm sorry.

The kinder, gentler SlapMyAssAndCallMeKen”

“Click here for the rabbit video:”

“SlapMy?.

No hard feelings here. You are entitled to your own opinion. I guess I should have explained mine better also. Here in Alabama we have a big problem with macho rednecks (and I will not use the term ?hunter?) killing deer and cutting off the head for mounting and leaving the rest of the deer in the woods to rot. This makes my blood boil! So much good meat goes to waste. Also, I come across non-poisonous and poisonous snakes killed on hiking trails just because people are scared of them. This is so un-neccesary. I shouldn?t have assumed that every state has this problem and surely shouldn?t have assumed you knew what I was talking about.

Have a good night I?m headed home.”

“I bet if he fired a round into the air the bullet would of fallen back and lodge into that bee hive raiding bear's noggin. It's a no-win situation.”

“Well, I've never been eaten by a bear before so I guess it doesn't hurt.”

“Prolly taste just like chicken. After all, The bear was eating bird food.”

“In recent news- B.C. is lifting the ban on Grizly hunting. Prior to the three year ban, more Griz were killed in B.C. each year, than supposedly even exist, in the lower 48. Current estimates place the population at about 12,000. Conservationists estimate about 4,000”

“http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/23/science/23BEAR.html" TARGET="_blank">Grizzly story”

“Humans cause spike in grizzly bear deaths near Glacier Park
Friday, December 24, 2004

By BECKY BOHRER
Associated Press Writer

BILLINGS, Mont. -- Seven were hit by trains or cars. Ten were killed illegally, often shot and left to die. Thirteen were killed by wildlife officials after problems with people. One was killed in self-defense.

All told, 31 grizzly bears in northwest Montana, 18 of them female, died this year as a result of human actions -- the most of any year since the bears were listed as a threatened species nearly 30 years ago and nearly double the number killed in 2003, officials said.

While the number of deaths was unusually high, state and federal wildlife officials say it's not cause for alarm -- yet. Contributing to the rise in deaths, they say, was an increase in human-bear contact as more people moved into bear territory and a poor berry crop that pushed more grizzlies out of the woods in search of food.

But some environmentalists are concerned -- and not just about the grizzlies in and around Glacier National Park. They're also worried about grizzlies in and near Yellowstone National Park, where run-ins with hunters accounted for nearly half the 19 grizzly bear deaths in 2004, and where a proposal to remove grizzlies from federal protection could come as early as next year.

"I think we're moving way too rapidly, given the warning signs on the horizon," said Louisa Willcox, wild bears project director for the Natural Resources Defense Council in Livingston, Mont. "We should take heed and slow down and really look at, and solve, the problems."

Hunting and habitat loss contributed to the bears' decline in the West early in the last century, and in 1975 grizzly bears in the lower 48 states were listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

At that time, there were probably 200 to 250 grizzlies in the Yellowstone ecosystem. Today, the estimate ranges from 550 to 600, maybe more, with bears in areas they weren't found 30 years ago, said Chris Servheen, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service grizzly bear recovery coordinator in Missoula, Mont.

Servheen calls those grizzlies "the greatest success in the Endangered Species Act," and anticipates a proposal to remove bears in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem from protection under the act sometime in 2005.

Such a proposal wouldn't affect grizzlies in other parts of the West, including the Rocky Mountains of northwest Montana, where researchers are still trying to pin down the size of the population. Estimates now put it at about 500 bears.

"We have much better science in Yellowstone," Servheen said, noting extensive, ongoing research and monitoring.

He said the 19 grizzlies killed in the Yellowstone region as a result of humans in 2004 was comparable to past years. But the nine females that died exceeded mortality thresholds set in 1993 by federal and state agencies to aid recovery.

Environmentalists find the figure troubling, especially given how slowly grizzlies reproduce. Bears can be 5 or 6 years old before they have their first cubs. However, researchers say the mark was set conservatively.

Servheen said the deaths would not affect delisting, but officials are studying what steps could be taken to address the issue.

Those steps include increased education for hunters and homeowners. Servheen and others said this is important as grizzlies expand their range and push to the edges of the ecosystem, where they're likely to encounter humans -- and trouble.

The grizzly "recovery zone" covers 9,200 square miles. But the bears already are living on more than 14,000 square miles in the Yellowstone ecosystem, Servheen said.

Hunters acting in self-defense accounted for at least seven of the 19 human-caused grizzly deaths in the Yellowstone region this year, he said. Wildlife officials removed seven bears that pillaged through people's trash and yards for food or otherwise had conflicts with humans.

Chuck Schwartz of the government's Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team said people must be able to live compatibly with bears in bear territory, taking steps such as securing trash or other attractants. But he said agencies need to recognize that there are places bears do not belong. If bears show up in those places, officials need to deal with why the bears are there, Schwartz added.

"If you remove the bear and not the source of the problem, you're right back to where you started," he said.

Wildlife officials and private organizations work with homeowners and others in bear country, helping them take steps to keep bears away, such as the use of bear-proof containers for food or trash, electric fences or even specialized bear dogs.

Some people don't want grizzlies around. Commissioners in Wyoming's Fremont County this month passed a resolution declaring the bears unwanted. Chairman Doug Thompson said the commission was motivated by concern for public health and safety and the potential negative effect on the economy.

He supports delisting, which he said would allow for greater flexibility in managing encroaching bears.

"We don't hate wildlife. People here deal with wildlife all the time and have a great respect for them," Thompson said. "But, like with anything, it has to be managed properly."

Heidi Godwin, project coordinator at the Sierra Club in Bozeman, Mont., said the level of frustration that people feel about bear recovery is daunting.

"People in these communities will decide recovery in the long run. If they don't coexist or have tolerance, bears are going to die," she said.

Both Godwin and Willcox question whether there would be adequate protection for bears and habitat in the Yellowstone area once delisting occurs. But Servheen said the population would continue to be researched and monitored and that thresholds would be in place for human-caused deaths.

Montana, Wyoming and Idaho would be involved in managing the grizzlies, and the states have submitted plans that have already been incorporated into a multiagency strategy. State officials support delisting, despite lingering questions about where the money to carry out the plans will come from.

The estimated annual cost for grizzly bear management after delisting is $3.4 million -- more than is being spent currently, Servheen said. Ensuring that funding is in place is critical to moving ahead with any delisting proposal, he said.

John Emmerich, of the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, said officials believe there should be as much financial support from the federal government as possible. But, he said, the agency is willing to look for other funding sources.

"We feel there is a need to get grizzlies delisted and start managing them," he said.”

“Oh well. Grizzlies aren't indigenous to High Elevation ecosystems anyway. Lord knows what kind of damage they've incurred since the migration/invasion.”

“I hope that it's only grizzly bears who are in danger and not embears.”

“this is one of those kind of things where when youre sitting in the comfort of your home youre thinking "man that really sucks", but when you start planning a hiking trip in montana or wyoming you think "maybe its not such a bad thing........"”

“I enjoyed seeing a Grizzly in Glacier. I was glad it wasn't too close, but it was close enough. Thats part of the thrill of nature...that in so many ways it is soo much more powerful than we are.”

“how many ppl were in your group, john?”

“I was solo....he was down the hill on a switchback eating berries. He looked up at me when I passed. I had to cross his path again underneath him although out of sight this time. I was very aware in case he'd moved.”

“youre braver than i am. if i was soloing in grizzly country i dont think id get to sleep at night. i read somewhere a statistic that there has been no fatal mauling in groups of 4 or more, and no attacks period in groups of 7 or more. good to know.”

“Ohhh! that's bad news!”

“I was solo for a night in northern Idaha and a night in Glacier a few years ago. I was convinced practically every animal noise I heard was a grizzly... I didn't sleep much, that's for sure.”

“Wussies!! J/K :)”

“Here's more problems for Alaska bears.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7417721/”

“So, is this an attempt to maintain an abnormally high population of game animals for sport-hunters to shoot.

There must be republicans in charge.

Those who do not learn from mistakes of the past are bound to repeat them.
last edited: 4/07/05 3:32:02 PM”