What is a stem cell?

“I was waiting for GWB to swat that fly into stem cell hell. Upon closer examination in slow motion (the recorder was set for BB2) it looked like a bird out in the distance. I never saw a bird move like that in real time. I think it was a CIA plot to distract me from the real issue.

What is a stem cell?”

“Stems sell for next to nothing. It's the buds and leaves that you want.”

“Stems and seeds?!? I knew it was a CIA plot!”

“Stem cells are gotten from embryos. There lies the controversey, where do researchers get the embryos from.”

“I think W's kids should be in charge of the country a while.”

“They are cells within an embryo that can be turned into ANY other type of human cells. Because of that, they can be used in EVERY type of human gene research project.”

“LOL Dunadan - I guess we can get a ton of stems with our tax refunds!”

“Was a nationally televised speech really necessary? I mean ER was delayed 20 whole minutes.”

“I had to wait to watch Big Brother. That B2stard! How dare he screw with my TV time!”

“i agree with Dude and Dunandan.

We need young Bush and Buds running this country!”

“The freeze dried Cajun-style ones are great over rice.”

“If you could produce oil from a stem cell dubya would spend billions on unlimited research.

But in the meantime we are restricted to producing heart, spine, and brain cells for republicans.”

“If you could produce oil from a stem cell dubya would spend billions on unlimited research.

But in the meantime we are restricted to producing heart, spine, and brain cells for republicans.”

“my message cloned itself!”

“lol... same here.. but walkingdude.. BB2 came on at seven.. unless u watched it on the '900 channel' like i did at eight..”

“What time zone is TownDawg livin in? BB2 was on after the speech.”

“Is somebody gonna stoke the coals on this issue yet.......


It will save lifes, and possibly change your genetic fate.

SUPERMAN could fly again.”

“House Defies Bush, Approves Stem Cell Bill By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON - In defiance of a presidential veto threat, senators who support embryonic stem cell research are pushing for a quick vote on a bill passed by the House that would lift restrictions on such studies.

"The American people cannot afford to wait any longer for our top scientists to realize the full potential of stem cell research," said Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa, the bill's chief Democratic sponsor.

No Senate debate has been scheduled, according to aides to Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., who is a doctor and an abortion opponent. He has long been an ally of President Bush, who last week said he would veto the bill.

The Republican-controlled House's 238-194 vote on Tuesday stung some abortion opponents even though it fell far short of the two-thirds majority needed to override a veto. Such an action by Bush would be the first of his presidency.

The Senate bill, sponsored by Harkin and Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., is identical to the approved House version. It would lift Bush's 2001 restrictions on federal funding for new embryonic stem cell research.

Proponents say federal funding for the research on days-old embryos, using a process that destroys them, would accelerate the search for treatments and perhaps cures for diseases such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. They say the embryos would have been discarded anyway.

Opponents dispute that, questioning any evidence that embryonic stem cell research will lead to cures. They say taxpayers should not be forced to finance science they see as an attack on unborn babies and Bush's "culture of life."

Bush on Tuesday called the House bill "a mistake."

Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., one of the Senate's staunchest opponents of abortion, said he was "disheartened" by the House's approval but pleased by Bush's veto threat.

"Government should encourage lifesaving research, but should focus on science that both works and is ethical," he said.

The bill's supporters said the Senate should weigh in despite the opposition.

"Let's have an up-or-down vote," Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., said in an interview.

The medical promise of embryonic stem cell research prompted several House members of both parties who oppose abortion rights to vote yes nonetheless. The moral obligation, they argued, rested on Congress to fund research that could lead to cures for debilitating illnesses.

"Who can say that prolonging a life is not pro-life?" said Rep. Jo Ann Emerson R-Mo., who said she had a "perfect" pro-life record and whose mother-in-law had died the night before of Alzheimer's disease.

"I must follow my heart on this and cast a vote in favor," she said.

"Being pro-life also means fighting for policies that will eliminate pain and suffering," said Rep. James R. Langevin, D-R.I., who was paralyzed at 16 in a gun accident.

But Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Texas and other House members who voted against the bill said that even if this type of embryonic stem cell research were proven to cure disease, forcing taxpayers to foot the bill would still be wrong.

"In the life of men and nations some mistakes you can't undo," DeLay said as he closed the House debate. "If we afford the little embryo any shred of respect and dignity we cannot in good faith use taxpayer dollars to destroy them."

He and Bush urged passage of another measure which would fund research and treatment on stem cells derived instead from umbilical cord blood and adults.

That bill passed 430-1, with Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, the lone no vote.”

“This does not have to be SO DIRECTLY tied to the issue of abortion. In doing so, it is cutting out the in-depth analysis of what stem cell research is all about. Yes, I know all about the life-begins-at-conception arguments that are likely to ensue here. But, like Ms. Emerson of Missouri pointed out, this is also a pro-life stance. The Koreans have made som convincing advances in this tehnology recently. There is much evidence to prove that this will work. It may just be the biggest breakthrough for this field of science in many, many years.

(didn't mean to hit submit there)

As far as the moral aspect of this, I am not going to get into a debate on abortion. But, the fact that lots of these embryos are discarded, it would be a crime not to put them to use to do something positive for the human race. When Bush made his speech in 2001 about not funding this research and using only existing lines, he virtually eliminated most of the potential effectiveness of this field of study, as it exists in America. Culture of life? He can call it what he wants. Let's see someone in that family adopt a few crack babies...
last edited: 5/25/05 8:14:40 AM”

“What's a stem cell? One more thing to bltch and fight about on TT. :)”

“Speaking of under-developed life forms, where's BEarmag?”

“BM is avoiding this thread:

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/36647,5.php”

“hey Nigal, I didn't name the thread ;)

In fact I am waiting on TT's resident nanny to complain this should be feugo...lol”

“I'm near bout scared to post here...but I'm with you tree. I do not see one point in throwing away embryos that could be used to further advancements in medical science...

and...big hell yea to...

Let's see someone in that family adopt a few crack babies...”

“I am all for stem cell research. If it can help medical advancements why stop it?”

“It's odd that an amoral president would make such pronoucements.”

“Yes, Carlette. When posting things of this nature on TT, you do near take your life into your own hands! But, that never really stopped me!

Seriously, it's an issue that (prior to the war and terrorism onset) had me convinced that GWB was on the wrong track. Personally, I feel it is one of the more important issues of our time. He dropped the ball on it then. And he's about to do it again by vetoing it. Freakin' schmuck!!”

“Being from a heavily populated Republican home...family...hometown....and my exhusband is chairman for the party in another county....I'm nauseated beyond belief by GWB by his stance on this. Just pitiful..”

“"In fact I am waiting on TT's resident nanny to complain this should be feugo...lol"

Ewker
8:30:35 AM
5/25/05

Somebody please send Ewker a copy of the TT rules and regulations.”

“I thought Ewker was the TT nanny?”

“i can understand carlette's misgivings about posting on such a thread as this.

being female, she obviously has no right to post on any thread even remotely related to abortion, adoption, or the debate over conception at all.

get back in yer kitchen woman. let us men handle this issue. we'll let you know what we decide while you serve us dinner.”

“They were going to be part of the final solution anyway, might as well not let them go to waste.

http://www.ushmm.org/research/doctors/twoa.htm”

“I'm also not a big fan of this insanity that some people push about embryonic stem cells as though suddenly there's going to be a cure for stuff, they aren't even close to that, and even if there was full funding for all the research that people want to do we may still be decades from a cure for anything derived from embryonic stem cells.

Yet there are a lot of people trying to sell this as the path to a miracle cure.

Remember, all of this is about MONEY. These researchers are no different than Halliburton, they want their share of what the government's giving out and so they need to sell there ideas in the best possible light.
last edited: 5/25/05 9:07:05 AM”

“if it had been related to abortion I wouldn't be on this thread...believe you me.

at the least can I not get a slap on the ass directing me to the kitchen? The world is going to hell in a hand basket quick..lol
How many beers should I pop open and bring back to you boys....brb...gotta go slop the pigs.”

“You mind explaining that post, Hyway?”

“I dont' expect there to be a sudden miracle cure for anything...thats not realistic.

But why throw something away that may at least point us in the right direction...to do that is moronic as hell.”

“Because you're talking about killing people to go in a direction that may or may not be the path to a cure, that tends to get ethically messy.”

“No I'm not talking about killin people..this isn't an abortion issue.”

“Stem cells have the remarkable potential to develop into many different cell types in the body. Serving as a sort of repair system for the body, they can theoretically divide without limit to replenish other cells as long as the person or animal is still alive. When a stem cell divides, each new cell has the potential to either remain a stem cell or become another type of cell with a more specialized function, such as a muscle cell, a red blood cell, or a brain cell.

embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro—in an in vitro fertilization clinic—and then donated for research purposes with informed consent of the donors. They are not derived from eggs fertilized in a woman's body.”

“Bison, are you saying that using embryos that are going to be discarded is "killing people"?”

“lol, carly, carly, carly.

this thread is related to abortion.

now get back in yer kitchen {slap on the ass}”

“You are correct about one thing, Bison. This is not established as a miracle cure at all...




... not yet. But, it seems you are letting your loyalty to GWB leak through here with this rationalization. You don't want to condemn the man, at any cost, over this. That's obvious. However, enough has been done to make a case for stem cell research. Enough that it warrants funding and a go ahead from this administration. So, why not move forward, Bison. Just because it can't be established, as of this time, how far our scientists can go wuith this, that we shouldn't pursue it. Are the risks of losing hundreds of embryos that much of a detriment to the human race? Please be realistic in your answer...”

“Treebeard, that's the nature of "conservatism".........resist change for the sake of resisting change.”

“And we're off!”

“Get the votes and get it done. Until then you'll have to satisfy yourself with dumping the dead babies in teh dumpsters.”

“and the problem with you liberals marko, is that you want to make progress just for the sake of errrr uhhhh progress”

“I'm listed to donate all my organs when I die.....am I suicidal? or am I helping others?

See I could give a damn about votes...thats where I get pissed how does it always turn into a #&%!$in game..who's winning yak yak yak.
last edited: 5/25/05 9:21:53 AM”

“Embryo's have all the genetic material necessary, they are people. If you destroy an embryo you are destroying a person.

Some people don't want to have to deal with this reality, I'm sorry for you all.

You can draw a line at any point of human development that you want, it isn't going to mean that you aren't killing a person. You might as well say that we can dismember two-month olds, the only difference between them and embryo's is the stage of development that they are in.

Whether you like it or not, destroying embryo's for stem cell research is an abortion issue, how and why the embryo is created is of no consequence whatsoever, it has the requisite genetic material and is therefore a human being.

Now I believe what Treebeard was talking about earlier is what some are trying to do, and the Koreans may have done, but many scientists aren't convinced. That is creating embryo's that don't have all of the requisite genetic material to make them human and then using those for this research. But even that get's into a whole mess of ethical issues.
last edited: 5/25/05 9:23:15 AM”

“Yeah MarkO! Come back when ya have the will of G-d on your side!!”