D*** H**** WHO TRY TO CENSOR THE INTERNE T

“Today we experienced a step back in evolution when someone took the DICK out of the classic, uproariously funny thread YOU STUPID DICK MUNCHING CRACK BABIES.

It ain't gonna work. Try as you might here and there to censor the internet, ultimately it's a losing battle. There cannot and should not be any real control over the internet.

The internet is perhaps our first step toward creating a global mind as a species. Every type of thought and almost every type of image is here, accessible to everyone, free and virtually unfettered.

So try as you might, you dinasours who don't like to see talk about this or that or lumberyard cowboys or the word dick or vagina are on the drop point of evolution.

So slap my ass and call me anything you want but you'll never silence me or the internet YOU STUPID FREAKIN DICK MUNCHIN LOSERS WHO TRY TO CENSOR THE INTERNET.”

“Go off your lithium or something?”

“Steve
Go into New Orleans and get laid OK. I like foul language as much as anyone but it ain't that big a deal. Good luck with your protest though.

WD”

“but I wouldn't push Matt too far. He is the God of this site. I'd hate to see you go.”

“Easy come, easy go

(???)”

“Hey, Steve's a good guy when he's not on a rampage. LOL!!!”

“Very clearly expressed, Steve hiker.

Offered as a counter view:
Should 'freedom of speach and expression' leave me unable to control, what is said or done in my own home, or on my website? I assure you that if someone were to make gestures or statements, that I felt were innapropriate, in front of my daughter, I would not run to the fridge and get him another beer!

After 50 years of blaming television, for the moral decay, of society, we now have a faster, more efficient global vehicle, in the internet. Does that make it any worse, or just faster and more accessible, to anyone, with an opinion?

While I do not agree with censorship, on the whole, I could not disagree with the right to decide what is displayed in my window or on my web page. Regardless of what I might say to the contrary, in public, having a swastika hanging in my window would be a reflection on me, personally. I reserve the right to control my own image and moral standards!”

“Censorship is working here, he changed the thread title.

Real control over the Internet?
As one entity no but the lines are all controlled by the telecommunications companies. All of the content resides on a server someone owns. Internic owns all the domain names and anyone who has a domain is just renting it.

Group mind? No thanks, sounds too much like an insect mound to me. Who chooses who the queen will be and who the drones?

Thoughts and images free? Thoughts are free but when it is written down it becomes property. I don't think artists, writers, poets and web designers like it very much when you take their hard work without them being compensated for it.

When you post to a site you are in someone's house. When people are disrespectful to me in my own home I send them packing.

I don't like censorship either but it's not my house.

Build your own house and make your own rules.”

“I refuse to be censored! I want to take a mongo dump in the middle of steve hiker's kitchen floor.

What right does he have to censor my bowels? I demand freedom of poo!”

“Steve Hiker - I think you are way off-base here in your logic. Censorship of the internet would be wholesale censorship by the government or other controlling body. Someone controling the content of their own website is allowing them freedom to create and control their own property. I would think you should consider that a fine thing.

It is a free country, but that doesn't mean you can piss in my living room, even if I invited you in.”

“It is not like Matt is the CIA. I trust his judgement and would actually like to see him censor a little bit more often. We all feel very comfortable here, because Matt doesn't pop up and say "Now lets get back to the subject of this thread". But some language and sexually explicit content should be avoided; just use your heads and Matt won't need to censor anything.”

“Steve, you're a jack@ss.”

“:oP”

“well steve hiker, you seem t be getting the response you must be looking for. i don't get it though. the title of your thread here appears to me to be a direct challenge to matt, the webmaster. why? if i recall this wrong, please correct me, but when we were sitting around the tea candle at raven point we discussed this very issue. you mentioned the fact then that you had been blocked from many forums. you also mention your opposition to censorship and the fact that trail talk was by far the most liberal when it came to the array posts allowed here. why do you now decide to abuse the generous nature of our host? why the direct challenge and disrespect to his wishes? i enjoyed hiking with you then and am looking forward to meeting up with you in the future but don't see your point here. it isn't a matter of censorship that i am seeing but a total abuse of matt's generosity. quite protest are much more effective.

peace out.”

“Steve Hiker you are so in the dark it's a joke. This is MATT'S site, what he want's on this site is his business. His monitoring of what is said here is not censoring of the Internet. It's a censoring of HIS site. The Internet is not really an individual entity but rather my computer, connected to Matt's computer, to some other's computers and so on. But those computers that you land on while on the Net have pretty much the right to do whatever they want on their computers. If you are on their computer you are their as a guest. If you don't like how it is run, don't go there.

Now, with regards to the postings on this site I'm glad Matt does censor it, in fact I wish he would do it more. Besides the fact that this is a Backpacking site, and trash talk doesn't really belong here, is the fact that children use this site. There is no need for trash talk on here.”

“most sites do not even include a forum, for points of view to be expressed.

are THEY censoring you?”

“This property argument is for the birds when it comes to the internet.

The record companies yelled PROPERTY and shut Napster down, but what happened? 100 Napster imitators sprung up. You cannot control the exchange of information on the internet, or in any medium very effectively. Burn a book, everyone will want to read it. Delete a popular thread, it will generate protest and more attention than if you left it alone. Gag a troll, and 50 savier trolls show up.

More to the point, a forum is a place for the free exchange of ideas. If you don't like what someone says or how they express it (verbally), shoot them down with better ideas. Flame them, boo them, but don't engage in a coward's censorship.

I have chosen to criticise Matt and I stick by it. If you don't like my criticism, feel free to criticise in return. But I will continue to speak and post as I want.”

“There are Napster imposters out there? Could someone show me a link? :@)”

“booooooooooo. booooooooooo. Flame. Flame. boooooooooooo. boooooooooooo.

Or a better idea, show some respect to others here.”

“I've always respected everyone here, and like everyone. Even Matt. People can disagree and be friends.

And don't forget, none of these so-called offensive threads are mine. I have only posted as steve hiker and use no aliases. I just enjoy the colorful threads here, and get worked up when somebody messes with them.”

“steve, I believe that is the stupidest argument I have ever heard.”

“Here are some Napster alternatives. Haven't used any yet, but hear Bearshare is good.

www.audiogalaxy.com
www.napigator.com
www.aimster.com
www.bearshare.com
www.limewire.com
www.toadnode.com
www.newtella.com
www.audiognome.com/
www.gnotella.com”

“You have the right to your opinion bacpac.”

“Well, I guess it is time for a response. To start off, I will state my views on what I believe towards Internet censorship. First of all, I am against government or corporate censorship of sites. If someone wants to make a web site about Nazi-pedophiles, then they should be able to do that. A web site is private property just like any other art form, creative work, or business. Since it is private, there should not be any censorship from governments or large corporations.

On the same idea, since it is private property, the owners of a web site can do whatever they like in terms of content and access privileges. The web site will be a reflection of the beliefs of the owners. I choose to be liberal in my interpretation of "what is a backpacking topic". I realize that a community is built on diverse people with diverse ideas. Stifling those ideas will only stifle the community. However, if a private company creates a community, the company is responsible for the actions of the community.

As with recent lawsuits within the Internet industry, I am directly responsible for what is posted on this site. Therefore, if someone posts illegal software on thebackpacker.com, I am responsible and can be sued for this.

Some of my main goals for thebackpacker.com are to create a community, provide tips from actual backpackers and not just experts, and to promote youth camping. Some of these are more prevalent than others throughout the site, but that is my mission for thebackpacker.com. Since this is a private website, I retain the right to delete anything from the web site that does not match this mission. There are many posts on TT that directly promote my mission, and there are some that do not. The off-topic posts that I do let remain add to the community aspect of the site. Sometimes I miss extremely offensive posts that I should probably delete, but since I am the only person working here, things can slip through the cracks.

So now that you know how I feel about Internet censorship and the mission for this site, I will tell you what I think is not acceptable. Comments that are sexually explicit should not be posted. There is a fine line between harmless flirt and penthouse forum, but I try to balance that. Anything that talks about using illegal drugs should not be posted. I have mentioned before that I wish to promote natural wilderness highs and not chemically altered camping. Extreme crudeness is a very hard subject for me to censor, mostly because it is hard to judge what is and isn't crude. An example of a thread I wanted to edit was "All French are Morons" and "All French are Mormons". I am a very un-PC person, but a direct put down of other people and groups should be avoided.

A basic rule of thumb is what would a young teenager or parent think of the topics on TT? Many of you think that young teenagers and parents don't belong on TT, but they are the ones that I am targeting. There is a very active group of regulars on TT, but there is an even bigger group of lurkers who never post. The lurkers (the people I try to target) are the ones that are most offended by the topics and never come back.

So please treat TT like a campfire: if the talk gets too crude people leave, but if the talk is inviting people join.”

“steve, do you understand anything about registering a domain, leasing a server, and setting up a site?

this... yes, all of THIS, is matt's. it is HIS forum. some forums only let a statement get posted after it has been reviewed. matt obviously trusts us more than that.

a forum is not a place for the free exchange of ideas. i'm sure you've been in a meeting that has involoved the use of rules, or maybe etiquette.

i'm 100% for free speech. that's why i'm defending matt's right to it.”

“damn it, matt. why did you get in my way?

bastard.”

“Very nice post, Matt. I laude your restraint after all my huffing and puffing.

However, I'm concerned about some of the folks in this forum who seem to be offended by ANY colorful post. Also, sometimes these folks use the content of another's speech as an excuse for waging personal attacks, such as what happened with Newgirl (whether she was real or not, let's put that aside for now).

That's why I'm so against censorship, because it creates a chilling effect and is used by others to simply impose their own ideas and choices in taste.”

“"Extreme crudeness is a very hard subject for me to censor, mostly because it is hard to judge what is and isn't crude"

Bacpac's covered”

“Also Matt, watch the results of what happened today and your post above. I predict that TT will, for several weeks and perhaps months, be as boring as a Mormon "discussion group." All the colorful regulars will be too timid to be themselves.

If you're really trying to gear TT to delicate young children and their parents, you'll probably have to eject 90% of us real people and start all over.”

“let's all git nekkid!”

“I gotta admit, the only reason I stick around is cause of RAD”

“I hope it does become a Mormon "discussion group," temporarily. Cause I always wanted to know, what's up with the special underwear???”

“tanks for the links Steve!”

“here, biz.

slip into these!

it's FUNDERWEAR!!!”

“Geez Rad, I spit my drink all over my keyboard!”

“Rad
Is that kinda like fromunda cheese?”

“Matt, I think you explained yourself very well.

BTW. The hit counters on my photo page make me think there are a lot of lurkers also.”

“"The internet is perhaps our first step toward creating a global mind as a species. Every type of thought and almost every type of image is here, accessible to everyone, free and virtually unfettered."

-steve hiker

According to this philosophy, it would be acceptable for people to post descriptions of pedophilic sado-masochism, as well as pictures of naked children being tortured, to further the goal of "creating a global mind." Is there any subject that would be off-limits in your vision of the internet? I support the concept of open debate, but pornographic postings, such as today's thread about cunnilingus during menstruation, are not appropriate for every setting. Our freedom can and should be tempered by consideration for the feelings and sensibilities of others.”

“"If you don't like what someone says or how they express it (verbally), shoot them down with better ideas. Flame them, boo them, but don't engage in a coward's censorship."
-steve hiker


yet you seem very worked up over our flaming and booing newgirl, stating many times on many posts that we "ran her off". Quit waffling and stick to one opinion steve-o!”

“I have seen no posts of pedophilic sado-masochism or pictures of naked children being tortured on TT.

Parading a line of imagined monsters is a common trick of those who wish to justify censorship. I don't fall for it.”

“As to Newgirl (or whoever she really was), I was referring to those who attempted to censor her by telling her that she shouldn't post about her love life and saying she should go somewhere else if she wanted to talk about those topics. I wasn't talking about mere flaming or criticism.”

“I am just glad I am low enough under the radar to avoid being singled out by Matt.

I would hate to be the guy that started the "I hate the French" threads.”

“I think BacPac covered it with his first post... I hope Steve Hiker will invite him to visit and make the deposit on his floor, his bed, or wherever BacPac chooses to express whats inside him. (I'm looking forward to the trip report).

Beyond that, I agree with Matt. His tolerance is pretty amazing. Steve is free to set up his own website with pretty much whatever rules he wants.”

“LOL, bacpac, rad. Good explanation, Matt. Especially the part about promoting family backpacking, *grin*.”

“steve h. - your characterization of my examples as "monsters" indicates that you acknowledge the existence of a boundary, beyond which there is such a thing as inappropriate subject matter. The fact that reasonable people disagree about where that boundary should be located does not mean that we should not have one. At this website, Matt has the authority to define what is appropriate and what is not. Can you give me a reason why he should relinquish that authority to you, or and adopt your standards in place of his own?”

“Little Stevey mentioned that he was not responsible for the offensive threads of the past. I look at the title of this thread and think "whaaa?!"

You are calling Matt an offensive name, Steve - you owe him an apology.”

“See Dick post something offensive.
See Dick get censored.
See Dick rip on the censor who has every right to keep HIS site clean for others.
What a Dick!”

“Matt,

I had no idea you had a problem with drugs... I'm suprised I didn't get kicked off the site the first time I posted...

I think drugs are a part of the camping experience, native Americans did it long before the white man killed them all and preached about the evils of everything.

Have you tried eating shrooms in the backcountry? If not, you're missing out!

Anyway, thanks for the site, but you must be getting something out of these pop up adds, otherwise you are an ass for bothering us with them!

;-o”

“You mean "asset", don't you Mr.Tarpy?”